This is June 18, 1997. We’re at the home of Judith and Joe Summer and we’re
located at 5670 Notre Dame Place in Columbus, Ohio. My name is Naomi
Schottenstein. I’m doing the interview this afternoon. And we’re doing this
for the Columbus Jewish Historical Society. Okay, Joe, continuing with our
outline of questions here…

Interviewer: Can you tell me who your parents were?

Summer: My parents were Samuel Summer and Irene Schonthal.

Interviewer: Okay, and your grandparents, do you remember your grandparents?

Summer: My grandparents were Joseph Schonthal. His wife’s name was Hermine,
who died before I was born so I do not remember her. My father’s parents, my
father was Nathan Summer; trying to remember my Grandmother Summer’s name.

Interviewer: Uh hum. We have Judith sitting right here with the family book
and, fortunately . . . .

Summer: Okay. Her name was Esther, her maiden name was Esther Goodman.

Interviewer: Excellent. By the way, this book that we have is a record that
the Summers Family, is it Summer? Is that correct?

Summer: That’s correct.

Interviewer: Okay, that the Summer Family has recorded for a number of years
and, hopefully we will get a copy of that and a lot of dates, important dates,
and names will be there. Do you remember any of your grandparents?

Summer: Oh yes, I remember both my grandparents from my father’s side but
only, as I said, my grandfather from my mother’s side because my grandmother
died before I was born.

Interviewer: What do you remember about them?

Summer: Well, my father’s parents lived in a little town in northern Ohio
called Shelby. It’s a town of about 12,000 people and we just went up there
infrequently, maybe once or twice a year. And I remember they had the only shoe
store in Shelby, Ohio, and my grandfather Summer was an avid bridge player, an
avid mushroom picker, and we always had his and my favorite dessert when we went
up there for a meal, which was: we would go downtown and buy chocolate ice cream
and salted peanuts to put on top of it.

Interviewer: Sounds pretty good to me. (laughs)

Summer: And of course, all four of my grandparents came over here from
Hungary. They immigrated in the, some time in the middle, late-middle 1800s, and
both the families were into Hungarian cooking, as my dear wife is now, thank
goodness. But I have to say that my Grandmother Summer was a lousy cook.

Interviewer: . . . .

Summer: Her dumplings were like eating marbles.

Interviewer: They were weapons, huh?

Summer: That’s right. About my Grandfather Schonthal, he used to come to
our house for Sunday dinner at noon on Sunday almost every week. He was
President of the Temple for 25 years.

Interviewer: What Temple was that?

Summer: Temple Israel.

Interviewer: And where was that located at that time?

Summer: At that time it was on Bryden Road.

Interviewer: Uh hum.

Summer: And . . . .

Interviewer: That was a Reform Temple?

Summer: Yes.

Interviewer: Uh hum.

Summer: And he was President of that from 1905 until he died in 1929. And if
he were still alive, I’m not saying he would still be President but he would
not have been easily replaced.

Interviewer: I understand. There’s a lot you can tell us about your
Grandfather Schonthal, I’m sure, because that name is very well known here in
Columbus. Can you go on and tell us more about him?

Summer: Well part of what I can tell you, just what I’ve heard through the
family. My personal contact with him was rather limited because he, after his
wife died, my Aunt Marguerite Isaac, one of my mother’s, my mother’s only
sister, kept house for him until she married and then he moved down to the
Southern Hotel and lived there in a suite on the second or third floor by
himself for many years and that’s the period when I would have remembered him.
I don’t remember anything about him when he was still living at the house by
himself. And he would come out to our house, as I said, for noon dinner on
Sunday and after we finished dinner, he would, he and I would get into his
electric car and we’d drive downton and in those days, we did not have any
stop lights in the City of Columbus. I’m talking about the early 19–, maybe
middle 1920s. They had, the policemen had signs that you’d turn that said
“Stop” and “Go.” And he was not in the habit of stopping. He
would shake his fist at the policeman and the policeman would turn the sign to

Interviewer: Goodness. That sounds like a real traffic pattern there.


Summer: Well, he was quite influential down at City Hall. He helped a lot of
people who were not in serious trouble but in some trouble with the police,
straighten out their lives and . . . .

Interviewer: What was his occupation? Did we, did we talk about, we haven’t
talked about that?

Summer: I will get to that in a minute.

Interviewer: Okay. Okay. You’re on.

Summer: Anyhow, after we got downtown, we would go to a movie because he was
on the Ohio Board of Censors, that censored all of the movies. So he had a pass
to all the movies and so we would go to the movie on Sunday afternoon and then
he would bring me home.

Interviewer: What theater, do you remember what theater you might have gone

Summer: Oh, we might have gone to the Southern Theater or the James or the
Grand or the Majestic.

Interviewer: Where were these theaters? Can you give us any . . . .

Summer: Well, let me see. The Majestic was on High Street between Broad and
State. The Grand was on Broad Street between High and Front. The Southern
Theater was where it is today.

Interviewer: On High and . . . .

Summer: No, right next to the, what used to be the Southern Hotel on East
Main Street.

Interviewer: On East Main Street?

Summer: They’re just rehabbing it. They’re just starting to rehab it
right now.

Interviewer: Just east of High Street, South High?

Summer: Uh huh.

Interviewer: Right. Beautiful. All beautiful theaters.

Summer: Uh huh.

Interviewer: Okay.

Summer: I don’t think the Palace had even been built then because the A.I.U.
Building, which is now called the LeVeque-Lincoln Tower, was not built until, if
I recall, around 1928 or 1929.

Interviewer: Yeah, that’s about the time the Ohio Theater was built and I
wouldn’t be surprised if the Palace might have been in that era also.

Summer: Could be.

Interviewer: Uh hum. Okay.

Summer: Well, anyhow. Then my other vivid recollection of him was just before
he died. He was in Grant Hospital. He’d had a hernia operation. He had been to
several doctors and they all told him that he shouldn’t have it but he was
vain enough that he did not want to walk around with a brace on his middle
section so he finally found a doctor who said it was all right and they operated
on him and he was in the hospital in recuperation and I went in to see him. And
a few days later, he died in the hospital. The doctors, the prior doctors, were
right. He should not have had the operation. This was in December of 1929. So
you said something about you wanted to know what business he was in?

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: Well, when he first came to this country, as is the route of many
immigrants, they all had a relative here. And his relative lived in Chillicothe
and I know this only from what the family discussions have been. Nobody
remembered who he was except the family always referred to him as “Uncle
Feldman.” So I guess he was the one who brought my grandfather over. And my
grandfather at that time was already married and had three children in Hungary.
And he started out by putting a pack on his back and going around to the various
farms in the neighborhood of Chillicothe and collecting old iron as they called
it in those days, which in modern terms we call “scrap iron” or
“scrap steel.”

Interviewer: Uh hum.

Summer: And somewhat later, he moved to Columbus and started a scrap yard
which is those days was known as “The Joseph Schonthal Company” and
successfully, and he had a lot of good accounts. He graduated from going around
the farms to going around industries in the city and contracting for their scrap
iron and also, somewhere along the line, purchased a small steel manufacturing
plant in Huntington, West Virgina, which was then known, in those days, known as
the West Virginia Rail Company because all they made was light rails for coal
mines. Very small rails, only about yea high.

Interviewer: A couple inches?

Summer: A couple inches high. Ten pound rails they were called or twelve
pound rails.

Interviewer: So it was a specific niche that he came into there?

Summer: Uh hum. And when my father married my mother, his daughter, he went
into the business and my mother had two brothers and one of them whose name was
Dez, which is an Americanization of a Hungarian name Dezu, moved to
Huntington to take charge of the plant down there and my other uncle, Bela,
which is also a good Hungarian name, moved to Chicago to take on the
distribution of the rail mill’s products in the coal mines in the Illinois
coal fields.

Interviewer: So the company expanded?

Summer: The company expanded and over the years had branch operations, I’m
talking about scrap operations now, not steel manufacturing operations, in
Cleveland and Pittsburgh and Buffalo and at one point, Birmingham, and I don’t
recall where else. So the business grew and it remained a family business and my
two brothers and I were both in the business. My younger brother Bill moved down
to Huntington to be a successful manager of a plant down there.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: And my brother Sam stayed in the business in Columbus along with me
until he died very young at the age of 52.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: And in 1956, we sold the steel plant in Huntington to H. K. Porter
Company. It’s an outfit out of Pittsburgh which had also previously bought a
steel mill in Birmingham, Alabama, called Conner’s Steel Company. We sold that
out, we sold the other, or closed down the other scrap operations, and sold the
local operation here and went into the real estate development business and real
estate investment business and liquidated the company in 1987.

Interviewer: What was the name of your real estate development business?

Summer: Summer and Company. We had changed the name many years back from the
Joseph Schonthal Company to Summer and Company, I think in the early 30s.

Interviewer: Uh hum. But your grandfather wasn’t involved in the real
estate part of it? That was long after . . . .

Summer: Oh no, he died in 1929.

Interviewer: Right. Okay. I think at this point, I’d like to jump into the
fact that what I know about your grandfather was his association with the
Schonthal Center and that was a very important, nostalgic part of Columbus Jewry
and maybe you can tell us a little bit about that development.

Summer: Well of course he was very much interested in all Jewish charities
and Gen—, and a lot of Gentile charities but basically the Jewish charities
and I know that he started the Schonthal Center and I know he started the Jewish
Infant’s Home.

Interviewer: What is the Jewish Infant’s Home?

Summer: Jewish Infant’s Home was for let’s say unaffiliated babies.

Interviewer: Okay.

Summer: If they were born out of wedlock or the parents deserted them or
whatever, they would bring them into the Jewish Infant’s Home and they would
be taken care of.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: Until somebody adopted them or they were grown enough to be out on
their own.

Interviewer: So it really wasn’t an orphanage then or would it be like an

Summer: Yeah, it was.

Interviewer: Yeah, it was an orphanage?

Summer: It was like an orphanage.

Interviewer: And where was that located?

Summer: Right next to the Schonthal Center on Rich Street.

Interviewer: On Rich Street?

Summer: Uh hum. And the Schonthal Center, I don’t know too much about
except that it was the predecessor to our now Jewish Center, Jewish Community
Center, and I have run into many people, or I shouldn’t say many, but a few
people in my travels and in my business connections who grew, more or less, grew
up using the Schonthal Center. I remember one person who was in the scrap
business in Chicago who, when he found out who I was, that I was from Columbus,
“Oh,” he said, “I went to Schonthal Center when I was growing
up.” So evidently it was helpful in the maturity of a lot of youngsters who
were growing up and became successful business people later in their lives and
they still remember going to the Schonthal Center. And I do remember the name of
the lady who was the secretary or really ran the thing. Her name was Rose
Sugarman. She was there for many, many, many years.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Summer: As I remember my grandfather referring to her any problem they had
with the Center, he talked to Rose Sugarman about.

Interviewer: So this was his own idea and his own dream, so to speak, and he
saw the need for it in the community?

Summer: Uh huh.

Interviewer: Well he certainly was an enterprising person and fortunately, he
had the means to do something to fulfill a dream like that . . . .

Summer: Yeah.

Interviewer: that was extremely valuable in the community. I know my, I’m
not a native of Columbus but, my husband’s family which is a very large
family, have talked very endearingly of Schonthal Center. It left many wonderful
memories, I know that.

Summer: Well . . . .

Interviewer: Did you spend much time there?

Summer: No.

Interviewer: You didn’t? Okay.

Summer: No, I did not.

Interviewer: Is there anything else that you can think of that maybe would
help us with knowing any more about your grandfather?

Summer: Well I know he had the reputation around town of being a person to
whom one could turn when one needed help. For example, I remember his telling me
a story once about some family, poor family, called him and I don’t even know
whether they were Jewish or not. But it was winter time and they were cold and
they needed coal. So he said, “I called up Morris Resler and said, ‘Morris,
do something about it.'” And I presume they got their coal. But there
used to be, in those days, these were the predecessors of what is now the Jewish

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: There were, somewhat later, I don’t know how many there were in
those days besides Morris Resler and my grandfather, but they later turned into
what they called “the nine old men.” They were Simon Lazarus and my
grandfather and Morris Resler and I don’t remember who the others were. But
they were really the ones that started what we used to call the United Jewish
Fund in those days, which later became the Jewish Federation.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: So this is way back when there was no official designation of it as
such, but they would take care of people who needed help in the community, the
Jewish people especially.

Judy Summer: . . . . camp.

Summer: . . . . well Camp Schonthal. I almost forgot about that.

Interviewer: Thank you, Judy for remembering. (indistinct) That’s why you’re
here. Excellent. Camp Schonthal.

Summer: Camp Schonthal. Camp Schonthal was in a place called Magnetic
Springs, Ohio, which my grandfather in his inimitable accent referred to as
“Mag-a-netic Springs.”


Interviewer: I’ve heard that one before.

Judy Summer: You’ve preserved that pronounciation forever this time.


Interviewer: We’ve accomplished a lot then. Okay.

Summer: Well he used to go up there and make a speech and he would start out
his speech by saying, “Shalom campers.”

Interviewer: Where was Magnetic Springs for those who don’t remember where
it is?

Summer: It’s north of here, 20 or 30 miles. It’s still around. It’s a
little town north of here someplace.

Interviewer: Near Delaware, Ohio, is it?

Judy Summer: I would say somewhere, maybe near Marysville or someplace in
that area.

Interviewer: Uh hum. What was so special about Magnetic Springs?

Summer: Well that, I think one of the reasons was, I don’t know this for a
fact but I presume you didn’t have to pay to go there. It was a summertime
place to keep the children occupied, keep them out of trouble.

Interviewer: Uh hum. I think older people, as I remember, probably people our
parents’ ages, would go there for like a spa kind of . . . .

Summer: Well not to the camp.

Interviewer: Okay, the camp was separate . . . .

Summer: Yeah.

Interviewer: Sure. But it’s in that . . . .

Summer: Yeah it was a, Magnetic Springs was a spa.

Interviewer: Uh huh. Okay.

Summer: And I think for many years if you bought bottled water in the gallon
or 5-gallon jugs, it came from Magnetic Springs.

Interviewer: It was purified or healthy?

Summer: But this is not the only Jewish camp in the area. There’s one up on
the River Road called Camp Lazarus. Now I don’t know much about that one but I
don’t know much about this one either.

Interviewer: Uh huh. But there was such a thing? Well, it’s good to know.

Summer: It was, as a humorous aside. I have a cousin in Chicago by the name
of Joseph Schonthal who was named for our grandfather. He’s the son of Bayla,
one of my mother’s brothers. And he had his, what, 87th birthday, 85th in
December. (indistinct) Oh, okay, so he had, last December he had his 87th.
Anyhow, for his 85th birthday, we somehow or another when we moved out here two
years ago and going through all our possessions from our house on Dawson Avenue
where we lived for 47 years, found a spoon and on the handle of the spoon was
engraved “Camp Schonthal.” And we sent it to my cousin for his 85th

Interviewer: Oh how special that was.

Summer: And believe me, we sent something else along with it, I don’t
remember what it was.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: But he wasn’t impressed with the other thing. The only thing he was
delighted with was that spoon.

Interviewer: Well that was a dear treasure then.

Summer: Yes.

Interviewer: How nice, how nice. Okay, I think you’ve given us some real
good background on your grandfather and that’s quite valuable for this
community. You told us something about your family. You have two brothers, is
that . . . .

Summer: I did have.

Interviewer: You did have?

Summer: They’re all, and I had a sister.

Interviewer: Tell us about each one of your siblings, if you can remember
when they were born and who they married, where they lived, and about their

Summer: Well, my older brother, Samuel Summer, Jr. was born in 1910. My
sister, Hermine, who was named after my Grandmother Schonthal, her name was
Hermine, was born in 1911. My brother, Bill was born in 1913 and I was born in

Interviewer: And they married, did they?

Summer: No my older brother never married. He went through Princeton and went
into the business and he had heart trouble and he died in 1951 which would have
made him 51 years old.

Interviewer: Hummm.

Summer: He never married. My younger brother, my other brother I should say,
Bill, married. He was born . . . . Well, he died in 1979. That would have made
him 66.

Interviewer: Uh hum.

Summer: He married in 1936 and he and his wife, first wife, were divorced in
1946 and they had three children. All of whom are alive.

Interviewer: And their names?

Summer: Their names were William Green Summer, Jr., Elizabeth and Linda.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: And William Green Summer, Jr. lives in England. He moved to England
after World War, no it was the Korean War. He went to work for Chase Manhattan
Bank and they sent him to work in London. He was a computer expert and they
moved their office a few years ago from London to Bornemoth. And he retired when
he reached the age of 55.


Summer: And they, he had a son, William, III, who lives in London and
interestingly enough, Bill, Jr. and his now wife and his son, Bill, III, will be
here for lunch Saturday. This is Saturday? Isn’t that wonderful?

Interviewer: That soon?

Summer: Yeah. Well you see they, my brother Bill, as I said earlier, moved to
Huntington, West Virginia, to take charge of the mill down there and his
children all grew up in Huntington.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: And so then his two sisters now live in Cincinnati. So once a year or
so, they come over here and this trip they are starting in New York. They’re
coming to Huntington and then they’re driving up here from Huntington and then
they’re going to Cincinnati.

Interviewer: A kind of family reunion thing or . . . .

Summer: Yeah, yeah.

Interviewer: Get in touch with their roots. Now you said he’s remarried?

Summer: Yeah, Bill, Jr.

Interviewer: Uh huh. He’s married to whom? What’s his present wife’s

Summer: His present wife’s name is Doreen.

Interviewer: Doreen, uh hum.

Summer: (aside) You have that in here Honey? (indistinct chatter)

Interviewer: I think that pretty much fills us in with Bill’s family.

Summer: Okay, now my sister Hermine was married three times. She died in –
when did Hermine die? She died in 1981.

Interviewer: What was her name? Well, you said she was married 3 times.

Summer: Yes.

Interviewer: Okay.

Summer: Her first husband’s name was . . . . Bell. And they had one child
Karen who was born in 1935. And then she was, her second husband’s name was
Carl Brightner and they had two children, John, who was born in 1944, and you
have Evelyn down but she’s legally changed her name to Bina and she was born
in 1945. And then her third husband’s name was Lon McCargy and they were
married in 1952 and he died in 1960. And she died in 1981.

Interviewer: Uh hum. So she left some childlren as well.

Summer: Uh hum.

Interviewer: Are you in touch with those children?

Summer: Not really very much. We were in touch with Bina for a while but I
haven’t heard from her for a couple of years. Now we’re much more in touch
with Bill’s children.

Interviewer: Uh hum.

Summer: And my niece Elizabeth, we call her Penny, because she has the red
hair that runs in the family from my grandfather, are rather closely in touch.

Interviewer: Uh hum. That’s good. Do you remember other relatives, aunts
and uncles that might help us establish family background?

Summer: You talking now about the Schonthal side?

Interviewer: Well any side of your family.

Summer: Well, as I mentioned somewhere along the line, Joseph Schonthal had
four children, Dez and Bayla and my mother, Irene, and my aunt Marguerite. So .
. . .

Interviewer: . . . . pretty much that part of the family?

Summer: Yeah. Then Marguerite never had any children and Bayla never, I mean
Dez never had any children. And Bayla had two children and one was my cousin Joe
Schonthal who lives in Chicago and he had a sister who died a number of years

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: On my father’s side of the family there were five children.

Interviewer: And who were they? Did we, we didn’t put that in. That wasn’t
in here yet?

Summer: No.

Interviewer: Okay can you tell us about that part of the family?

Summer: Well this has nothing to do with the Schonthals.

Interviewer: Well that’s okay, that’s okay. It’s part of your family.

Summer: Well, my father was the oldest of the five children. And he had three
sisters, Raidy, Leah and Dora, and one younger brother, David. They all were
brought up in Shelby, Ohio. None of the girls ever married. Two of them were
school teachers. Dora was a high school teacher and she taught Latin and French
and German and Mechanical Drawing and I don’t know what.

Interviewer: Pretty versatile.

Summer: Yeah. Interestingly enough, there are many people, again many, I
should really say a few people to whom we run into around town who were her
students at Shelby High School.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: . . . . there was an eye doctor once who was one of them and . . . .
famous basketball player at Ohio State who became a famous basketball player . .
. . But that was her pride and joy. Our children were very impressed with that.

Interviewer: So she left some good background too for other youngsters?

Summer: Yeah, Leah taught first and second grade. Raidy ran the shoe store
because my Grandfather Summer was more interested in sitting in the stock room
and reading than he was in greeting the customers.

Interviewer: Oh.

Summer: So . . . .

Interviewer: You mean the stock room of the shoe store?

Summer: Yeah.

Interviewer: Okay. Okay.

Summer: And David was sort of the black sheep of the family. He ran away as a
lot of children did in our 1960s but this . . . .we’re talking back in the
1900s or 1890s and some of the girls heard from him once in a while, but I never
met the man except the day of my father’s funeral, he showed up at our house
after the funeral to pay his condolences.

Interviewer: Isn’t that interesting?

Summer: And I knew who he was right away from his pictures and he looked
almost exactly as his father had looked and he came and he paid his respects and
he stayed for maybe half an hour and that’s the last I saw of him.

Interviewer: Kind of a mystery person?

Summer: Uh hum.

Interviewer: Well, that’s interesting. Joe, let’s talk a little bit about
your education. Where did you go to school?

Summer: I went for twelve years to The Columbus Academy and two years to
Harvard. And after my second year at Harvard, it came 1937 and we were having a
bad time in the business and my father said to me: “How about not going
back to college and coming and help me full time in the business,” and I
said, “Why not, I know what I’m going to do anyhow,” and . . . .

Interviewer: Uh hum.

Summer: So I had two years of college and that’s my education.

Interviewer: Well the time was right for you to go into the business?

Summer: Yes.

Interviewer: Were there any teachers or classmates that you remember that
might be of note for our archives here? Sometimes a teacher sticks into your
mind or classmates that maybe you kept in touch with for years.

Summer: Well (laughs) yeah, but they’re all gone except one.

Interviewer: Yeah?

Summer: I mean, you know, we had . . . . In those days, the classes at The
Columbus Academy were rather small. I think our graduating class had 16 or 18 in
it. And there were four or five of us who were really very close. John Altmaier
whose family lives in town; and Stanley Kauffman who is, was, is President of
some small college in upper New York State, who has completely divorced himself
from Columbus connections for some reason or another; and Artie Isaac, who is
now gone; and Baker Lucas who is now gone.

Interviewer: Uh hum. Well see now, Artie Isaacs was an attorney, was he?

Summer: No that was his brother, . . . .

Interviewer: His brother. Uh huh. What did Artie do?

Summer: Artie was a stockbroker with Bache Prudential Bache.

Interviewer: Okay.

Summer: His family goes quite a way back.

Interviewer: Do you recall anything about family vacations back in those
years? I don’t know how much traveling you’ve done.

Summer: Well, we always went to Charlevoix, Michigan for the summertime.

Interviewer: Uh hum.

Summer: We, my family, my father would rent a cottage up there and we were up
there from oh from June or late June, maybe Fourth of July, until almost Labor

Interviewer: Did any other family members, except your immediate family, go
up there?

Summer: Oh yes, my Uncle Dez would come up and visit. My Grandfather
Schonthal came up and visited there one summer. And of course, my brothers and
my sister.

Interviewer: So it was something you looked forward to and enjoyed. Do you
remember anything about illnesses growing up, any childhood illnesses or serious
family illnesses?

Summer: Well I guess I had the usual childhood diseases. I remember having
the chicken pox and the mumps on one side and, I don’t know. Usual things.

Interviewer: Usual things. Was your family into reunions other than visiting
up at the cottage? Were there regular visitations like your Sunday, or holiday

Summer: No only as I said, when we would all go up to Charlevoix . . . . a
couple of times a year and the rest of the family, no, we . . . . as I said, my
grandfather would come up for lunch or for noon dinner on Sunday and my Uncle
Dez and his wife would come up on occasion if somebody was having a birthday or
something like that, but . . . .

Interviewer: Uh hum.

Summer: And my Aunt Marguerite and her husband would come over and we would
play Hearts or Bridge or something like that and . . . .

Interviewer: Seems like in those days, family get-togethers even if they were
like family dinners or so, were so easy to come by and now everybody is running
in so many different direction that those kinds of get-togethers are; I remember
also as a youngster that it was just an every day part of our life to have some
relatives around.

Summer: Yeah, sure.

Interviewer: Now it seems to be a lot more involved. Everybody’s got such a
busy life. Then we counted on each other a lot more too. Joe, tell us something
about your religious affiliation. Your synagogue or Temple, Temple involvement
and how you celebrated holidays at home. Or did you celebrate holidays?

Summer: Barely. We just happened to run into Helane Cummins at the funeral .
. . .

Interviewer: Uh hum.

Summer: And this tape that she made for the Temple where she said that all
she remembered about Hanukkah was that we got, when we were at Sunday School, we
got a box of Mulane’s Taffy and a box of orange candles and that was it. And I
know that because my grandfather in those days was the one that handed out the
boxes of Mulane’s Taffy.

Interviewer: Was that a special kind of taffy?

Summer: Yeah, it was made in Cincinnati.

Interviewer: Oh, isn’t that interesting? Okay.

Summer: And so, no, we had no special celebrations at home at all. And my
religious education was very limited because all I did, I went to Sunday School
and one of the years my teacher was my older brother, Sam, so I learned
practically nothing.


Interviewer: Okay.

Summer: And one of my classmates in that class was David Cohen who I
understand is gone and another one was Russell Joseph who I understand is gone
and they were both cut-ups and my brother wasn’t very good at discipline and
so we just sort of coasted through that year. I remember Grandma Loeb directing
the singing and the hymns.

Interviewer: Uh huh. Grandma Loeb wasn’t actually related to you was she?

Summer: No, no.

Interviewer: That was the title?

Summer: That was what everybody, well that’s because she was the
grandmother of Arthur Loeb and everybody referred to her as Grandma Loeb.
Everybody, not just me or my family.

Interviewer: Sure.

Summer: The whole Sunday School referred to her as Grandma Loeb. And . . . .

Interviewer: Were you always associated with Temple, what we know now as
Temple Israel?

Summer: Yeah.

Interviewer: Uh hum.

Summer: Yeah.

Interviewer: Or Bryden Road Temple, as it was known years ago. Joe, we’re
kind of coming to the end of this tape so I’m going to just stop for a second
and turn the tape over.

Summer: Okay.

Interviewer: And we’re going to continue our interview and Joe Cohen, who’s
here with me, my cohort here, has a couple of questions he wants to ask Joe

Cohen: A couple of things Joe, you mentioned this relative in Chillicothe,
Uncle Feldman, that your grandfather came to see. Did you have any other
relatives that you know of that your grandfather might have had?

Summer: Not my Grandfather Schonthal, no.

Cohen: Not your Grandfather Schonthal? Okay. And why did he move from
Chillicothe to Columbus? What made him move? Do you have any idea?

Interviewer: Or do you know why he ended up in Chillicothe?

Summer: Well because Uncle Feldman was there.

Interviewer: Okay, Uncle Feldman, right, okay.

Summer: I just, he probably felt there was more opportunity in Columbus
because Chillicothe at one time, as you may or may not know, was the capital of
the State of Ohio for a few years, and maybe, I’m just speculating now, Uncle
Feldman moved there when it was a capital and now that Columbus was the capital,
it behooved my grandfather to move to the capital city. That’s, I’m just
speculating now.

Interviewer: That makes sense to me . . . .

Cohen: But I had never read, or in studying some of the books here in
Columbus, the history books which do mention your grandfather very vividly, but
they never mentioned why he left Chillicothe and came to Columbus, as many
people did. Many Jewish people did come from small towns and migrated to

Summer: Well I can’t give you a definitive answer about it. I’m just
speculating also.

Cohen: Yeah.


Cohen: . . . . you mentioned this, this Grandmother Loeb.

Summer: Grandma Loeb.

Cohen: Grandma Loeb. Your grandfather also had an endearment name, Pops, that
you hadn’t mentioned and was, and still is, I think well known in the
community that he was known as Pops Schonthal.

Summer: As far as I can determine, that came from the Schonthal Center.

Cohen: I see.

Summer: That everybody around there referred to him as I refer to this lady
as Grandma Loeb in this Religious School, everybody around the Center referred
to him as Pops Schonthal.

Cohen: Uh hum. And you don’t know the origination . . . .

Summer: No, I don’t.

Cohen: . . . . term of endearment?

Summer: But I know that Leo Yassenoff always referred to him as Pops
Schonthal and Troy Feibel always referred to him as Pops Schonthal.


Interviewer: Judith has a family album here that she’s showing us . . . .


Interviewer: . . . . cartoon. That’s lovely. I think I’m going to take
the opportunity to ask the Summers if they wouldn’t mind if we might copy some
of your pictures from the family album too. We’ll talk about that in a little
bit. Joe do you have any other . . . .

Cohen: That is that article.

Summer: That’s it. Yes.

Cohen: That’s it right there. And his, and the Pops name is mentioned in
that article. That’s why I asked the question why and I’ve heard that
mentioned many, many times and I wondered what the origination of that word was.

Summer: Well I think it’s just a term of endearment like Grandpop or
Grandma or something like that.

Interviewer: It’s kind of, it’s a warm . . . .


Interviewer: Everybody can use that term.

Cohen: Most unusual to use that term of endearment.

Summer: Yes.

Cohen: Yeah. That’s basically all I have.

Interviewer: Okay. Joe, do you have any recollections of the Great
Depression? I know some of the things that we’ve talked about already: your
grandfather’s helping people during the late 1920s, maybe early 1930s. That
was a great time of need for many people. Do you have any other recollections of
the Depression?

Summer: Well bear in mind now he died in December of 1929 which is, the Stock
Market crash was in October of 1929.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: So by the time the Depression came along, he was no longer around.

Interviewer: Do you have your own personal recollections?

Summer: Oh yes I do. Fortunately we didn’t suffer too much. I remember when
Roosevelt closed the banks. I remember that my father had to send my sister, who
was at that point a student at Smith College in Northampton, Massachusetts, script
because nobody could go to the bank and get cash.

Interviewer: Well can you explain to us what script was.

Summer: Well it was like currency, drawn on a bank. My father was on the
Board of Directors of the Huntington National Bank in those days and so he got script
which I guess, I don’t remember, I don’t know that I ever saw it, but I
presume that it said that the Huntington National Bank will pay so much money
and you can, it was as good as a dollar.

Interviewer: Uh huh. Well that’s an interesting term “script” and
I think that’s a valuable interjection here in the interview. We haven’t
discussed that with anybody else.

Summer: Well, other than that, well of course I remember the W.P.A. and the
Blue Eagle: N.R.A.

Interviewer: What was the Blue Eagle?

Summer: National Recovery Act was NRA; it was called The Blue Eagle. It was a
price maintenance thing to keep people from cutting prices and you were supposed
to maintain the price of a certain product and not cut it below that price
because if they got into cutthroat competition, it would put people out of work.

Interviewer: A management tool?

Summer: Uh huh.

Interviewer: You also mentioned the W.P.A. Can you tell us a little bit about

Summer: The Works Progress Administration. Well, that was a
government-sponsored thing where they gave people jobs to dig ditches and
whatever. They did a lot of good things with the government money in those days.
There was something to show for it.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: They built buildings and they dug ditches and roadways and put in new
roads and this was all W.P.A. and there was the C.C.C., the Civilian
Conservation Corps for younger people. Give them jobs to do things like clearing
forests and working outdoors and that sort of thing.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: And I remember some of the songs, “Brother Can You Spare a
Dime?” from that era and I know things were tough and I fortunately have to
say that it really didn’t affect us too much as far as our standard of living
or anything like that was concerned.

Interviewer: But you certainly were aware of other people . . . .

Summer: Oh, very much so.

Interviewer: Let’s see, Joe. I was going to ask you about any military
service. Were you ever in the army or any part of the military?

Summer: Five years.

Interviewer: Five years? Can you tell us a little bit about this?

Summer: I went in in January of ’41 and officially got out in April of

Interviewer: Does that sound right?

Summer: No, ’47. Officially. I had three months’ leave. I got home two
days before Christmas in 1946 and I was not officially out until April of 1947.

Interviewer: What branch of the service were you in?

Summer: I started out in the Infantry in the 37th Division. I was drafted. I
was offered a deferment because I was in an essential industry and I turned it
down because I figured if it was only going to be one year, which they were
trying to sell you on at that time, I wanted to go and get it over with. And if
it was going to be more than one year as I highly suspected, I wanted to be in
early and in on the ground floor so that I would have a chance for advancement
and I went in, so I was drafted and I went in from Fort Hayes in January of

Interviewer: Fort Hayes here in Columbus?

Summer: Yes.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: And among the people who were drafted along with me, let’s see, was
Bob Greene.

Interviewer: Who is . . . . can you tell us who Bob Greene is?

Summer: Bob Greene is the retired President of Bron-Shoe Company.

Interviewer: Uh hum. And he has a famous son?

Summer: He had a famous son who is a writer and who I just read will be here
for July 4th celebration for the Bexley 50th anniversary or something like that.
And another fellow by the name of John Dunnick who is from a Columbus family who
later on moved to Lima and was President of a bank up there for a number of
years, who has since died. Bob Greene is still very much alive, thank goodness.
And . . . .

Interviewer: I might mention too, his son, we said that he was famous. He’s
famous because he writes a syndicated article or the newspaper, in the
syndicated what is it, the Chicago newspaper? And his articles are often in the
Columbus Dispatch.

Summer: That’s right.

Interviewer: Many other places. He’s always a welcome visitor to Columbus.
Okay, I didn’t mean to interrupt you.

Summer: That’s all right. So anyhow, I was assigned first to Camp Shelby,
Mississippi, and having had some Electrical Engineering in college, two years of
it, I was assigned as a switchboard operator, telephone switchboard operator.
And in a brigade headquarters. In those days, they had division headquarters and
brigade headquarters and the brigade had two regiments under it. And went
through Louisiana maneuvers that summer and got acquainted with all the snakes
and the alligators and so forth. And that fall I was sent to Officer Candidate
School at Fort Monmouth, New Jersey, which was a Signal Corps school and I was
there for three monhs and I got my commission and I was assigned to do technical
radar work. In those days, we were not allowed to use the word “radar”
in public.

Interviewer: Why?

Summer: It was secret.

Interviewer: Top secret, huh?

Summer: So they put me through radio school and then I went to radar school
in Fort Monmouth and then I went to advanced radar school in Camp Murphy,
Florida, which is just outside of Palm Beach, for six months, and then I was
transferred to Drew Field at Tampa, Florida, which is now the Tampa
International Airport, to a school there. I was an officer, I was the S-3
training officer for radar school and radio school and the filter center school
who, and I was there for two years and then I went from there to Camp Anza,
California, for staging to go overseas and I was on a ship from Los Angeles to
Bombay, India for 31 days and I started in Bombay, India, and I came home via
Asam, Burma, China, and I sailed home from Shanghai to San Francisco. So if you
can visualize the continent of Asia, I landed in Bombay which is on the western
end of the continent of Asia, I sailed home from Shanghai which is on the
eastern side of the continent of Asia and I was in San Francisco being processed
for two or three days, went to Camp Aterbury, Indiana, to be discharged and they
said to me that you have enough time as a captain, that I was a captain, and if
you want to join the Reserves, you can stay an extra day and we’ll promote you
and you can go home a Major and I said, “I just want to go home.”

Interviewer: Forget the major part, huh? (Laughter) Is that what you did?

Summer: Uh hum. And fortunately because had I been in the Reserves, I would
have been in the Korean War.

Interviewer: Uh hum. Yeah. It was a good decision there.

Summer: Yeah. So that’s my military history.

Interviewer: Uh hum.

Summer: I got home two days before Christmas.

Interviewer: Oh huh. Well you had covered a lot of mileage during those

Summer: Yes, uh hum.

Interviewer: We talked somewhat about your background in terms of your jobs,
your career, etc. and you are retired now, is that correct? How long have you
been retired?

Summer: Since 1987.

Interviewer: ’87, okay. And do you do anything, anything of interest now in
terms of, maybe community activity or you said you live in Florida six years . .
. .

Summer: Six months.

Interviewer: Six months, and you’re here six months, so that kind of
divides your time up, doesn’t it? So you’re basically retired. Are you a
golfer or . . . .

Summer: No golf, no tennis.

Interviewer: Just enjoying life?

Summer: Uh hum.

Interviewer: Excellent, excellent.

Summer: And not enough hours in the day.

Interviewer: I can understand that. I can understand that.

Summer: Well, I’m fortunate. We both like to sleep late. We’re night
people. We don’t go to sleep until 12:30 and we sleep until 9:30 or 10:00 in
the morning and by the time we read the paper, it’s noon and . . . .

Interviewer: And the day goes by?

Summer: Uh hum.

Interviewer: Great, great. That’s nice. It’s nice that you can enjoy your
life. Can you tell us how you and Judith met? And how, when you got married, and
so forth?

Summer: Well . . . .

Interviewer: Now we’re talking about another phase of your life.

Summer: Yeah, I can tell you how we met. Rose Shinbach, Chuck Lazarus’
sister, was in those days married to Chester Shinbach, who was a doctor, an
orthopedic doctor here in town. You have enough tape? Was giving Chester a
surprise party for his something birthday, which one was it, who knows?


Interviewer: It was an important birthday?

Summer: Yes, yeah.

Interviewer: Okay.

Summer: And I was invited. It was at the Winding Hollow Country Club. And
according to Judy’s story, she got the invitation and thought something about
. . . . well, she got a call from the country club asking if she’d be there
Saturday night and she thought well the country club was hurting for business
because otherwise why would I get the call. It turns out she was invited to this
party too but she didn’t pay any attention to the invitation. But the then
President of the country club, Dick Abel, happened to drop by and she was
telling him about this and he said, “Well, it’s a private party and you
must have been invited.” So she called up and she found out that she was
invited so she came to the party with some friends of hers, Jack and Dorothy
Alpers. He was a doctor here in town. And we met and we had met before very
casually and we met and we had dinner together and I took her home that night
and this was in May what . . . .


Summer: May 2, and a couple weeks later we decided that we were made for each
other and we announced our engagement on my father’s birthday which was June
12 and we decided to get married on September 12.

Interviewer: Of what year?

Summer: ’48, 1948.

Interviewer: Okay.

Summer: That way according to Judy, on the 12th of each month, I have to stop
and think because we were engaged on June 12 and married on September 12 and her
birthday is April 12.

Interviewer: 12 is a good number for you.

Summer: Uh hum.

Cohen: Where were you married?

Summer: Where were we married? We were married in the Rabbi’s study in the
Bryden Road Temple.


Judy Summer: Uh excuse me, but you forgot to mention that I was widowed then
. . . . son . . . . I was a war bride . . . . married, that’s why I came to
Columbus. Married a dentist by the name of Dr. Sam Swerdlow.

Interviewer: Swedlow or Swerdlow?

Judy Summer: Swerdlow.

Interviewer: Swerdlow? Uh huh.

Judy Summer: And he got killed in a car accident.

Summer: And she was in the car.

Interviewer: Oh is that right?

Judy Summer: And . . . .

Interviewer: And that’s why you were in Columbus?

Judy Summer: I was in Columbus and the people ask how did you meet and I say,
“I made it easy for him; I came to Columbus.”

Interviewer: Yes. Yes, where did you come from Judy?

Judy Summer: Budapest.

Interviewer: Budapest. And what year did you come here?

Judy Summer: ’46.

Interviewer: ’46?

Judy Summer: I was liberated in ’45 by the American Army.

Interviewer: Uh hum.

Judy Summer: Met my first husband and we got married in Prague.

Interviewer: In Prague?

Judy Summer: And I came over with him in ’46, January.

Interviewer: Uh huh. And then your life continued in ’48.

Judy Summer: Very happily.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Judy Summer: Since then.

Interviewer: And so you had a small wedding?

Judy Summer: Very small.

Summer: . . . . What happened was that we arranged, my parents were in
Charlevoix, Michigan, and my father just had a heart attack and so they said we
should not wait, we should go ahead and get married and so my brother, Bill, was
supposed to come up from Huntington to be my best man and Judy had a
step-daughter because her first husband had been married before and she was
supposed to be her Maid of Honor or whatever. We were going to be married I
think at 11:00 in the morning in the Rabbi’s study and my brother called about
9:30 and he said he’d started up and got a bad case of the flu and he had a
temperature and he was throwing up and he couldn’t make it. We got there and
we found out that Judy’s step-daughter, being under-age, couldn’t be a
witness. But the Rabbi’s wife was there and the Rabbi said, “Well now,
the President of the Temple is here and would you like him to serve as your best
man?” Fine, and so it was Leonard Stern.

Interviewer: Oh.

Summer: Who later became, as you know, one of the Justices of the Supreme
Court of the State of Ohio and who’s since died.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Summer: He was our best man and Bessie Folkman was Judy’s attendant and
that was the smallest wedding on record.

Interviewer: Oh, and that was, that was totally Plan B, wasn’t it?
(Laughter) But it worked out.

Summer: It worked out fine.

Interviewer: It all worked out to the best.

Judy Summer: It’s been 49 years, so far . . . .

Interviewer: Yeah, that shows you that there’s more than one way to get
there, right? Wonderful. Wonderful. And did you and Judy have children? Family?

Summer: Oh yes, yes.

Interviewer: Who are your children?

Summer: We had two of our making. Barbara, better known as Babs, who is now
45 and Tom who is now 44, 43; he’ll be 44 in November.

Interviewer: Uh hum.

Judy Summer: . . . . and one is Fred, from my first marriage, who Joe

Interviewer: Okay.

Summer: Immediately.

Interviewer: Okay. Fred was adopted. Okay. Tell us now about where the
children are? Have they married? Do they have children? Can you fill us in on
their families?

Summer: Well Fred is married. He has three children. Samantha is 22. Josh is
16 and Jeremy is 14.

Interviewer: Who is he married to?

Summer: He’s married to Sandy Erkis, who’s a local girl.

Interviewer: Uh hum. Do they live in Columbus?

Summer: Yes, he is an attorney.

Interviewer: Okay.

Summer: And Babs is married to Mitchell Glazer and they live in Newton,
Massachusetts. And she graduated from, well she went through CSG and then she
went for two years to Wellesley. She had a chance her junior year to spend her
junior year in a boys’ college named Bowdoin in Brunswick, Maine. And she
liked it there. She liked the ratio, having been in a girls-only school for 14
years, she liked the ratio of girls to boys.

Interviewer: Uh huh. At that time . . . .

Summer: And she decided that she would, wanted to transfer to Bowden and so
she worked to get the grades to enable her to do that. Graduated from Bowden.
Met her now-husband there at Bowden and she started out working at a real estate
office in Boston. She was a, what did they call it? Property management. The
property management job she had was when somebody’s toilet got stopped up,
they called her and she called the plumber.

Interviewer: So she was a kind of problem solver?

Summer: Yes. So she went to, from there, to paralegal school and worked for a
law firm in New York. And then they moved to Indiana and she worked for a law
firm in South Bend. Then she decided to become a CPA, which she did, and worked
for Price Waterhouse in South Bend and then they moved to St. Louis and she
worked for them there and then they moved to Philadelphia and she worked for
them there. And then she worked for them when they moved to the Boston area and
then for a while she retired and now she’s back working part time and so . . .

Interviewer: Well she sounds quite versatile.

Summer: Yes.

Interviewer: And capable.

Summer: Yes.

Interviewer: And does she have children?

Summer: Yes, she has two children. Scott is how old, Honey?

Judy Summer: Thirteen.

Summer: And Matt is 10. Okay.

Interviewer: So that kept her kind of busy too, it sounds like?

Summer: And our youngest, Tom, is, was working, well, Tom went to Harvard for
a year and dropped out to find himself and then six years or seven years later,
went back and graduated Cum Laude and then he decided that he wanted to
have his Master’s Degree so he went to Chicago Business School and got his
M.B.A. and when he finished that, I said to him: “Why don’t you take your
CPA exam?” so he did and he passed that and he worked for Pepsico in
Purchase, New York, for a number of years and then he moved back here and he
worked for Cardinal Health for a number of years and he just changed jobs and he’s
moved, his family hasn’t moved yet, but he has moved to Rochester, New York,
to work for a company there called Canandaigua Wine Company. So there, they have
two girls. Alexa is 13 and Marguerite is 9.

Interviewer: Did you tell us his wife’s name? I . . . . maybe you did.

Summer: His wife’a name is Sydney.

Interviewer: Okay.

Summer: Sydney Licht was her maiden name.

Interviewer: She from Columbus?

Summer: No, she is from Boston.

Interviewer: Uh hum. Okay. That brings us up to date with your children, your

Summer: Uh hum.

Interviewer: I just want to ask you about bringing us up to date about
attitudes, about raising your family, compared to how raising a family would be
in today’s world.

Summer: Yeah.

Interviewer: Did you find it easier then . . . .

Summer: Well we don’t know but we keep saying we’re glad we’re not
young any more and have young children or faced with some of the problems that
parents are faced with today with the drugs and the guns and the AIDS and the
lack of discipline and the lack of manners and so forth. So we say that to each
other very often, we’re glad we are not at the age where we have to raise a
family and we just hope that all our grandchildren come through this stage
without any major problems.

Interviewer: Well there’s, is there a message maybe that you could leave
for your grandchildren that maybe at this, at this moment that we’ve got you
captured here, if you can leave them some words of wisdom? You sound like a man
who’s had some very sound experience in your life and wonderful background and
so forth. So maybe there’s some wise words of wisdom you can share with them.

Summer: All I can tell them is whatever action you are contemplating, think
it over very carefully before you make the decision.

Interviewer: That sounds pretty wise to me.

Summer: The sun’s out.

Interviewer: Yeah, the sun’s out. Those were wise, wise words and I think
the heavens have opened up to share that absorption . . . . Do you think you can
fill us in with any other family or social activities that were pleasant
memories you had and happy events that; you mentioned Winding Hollow. Was that a
great source of activity for you and your family?

Summer: Well my father was the first President of Winding Hollow.

Interviewer: Oh, that’s interesting.

Summer: And I was President of Winding Hollow at some stage of the game.

Interviewer: Where was Winding Hollow originally?

Summer: Out on Westerville Road.

Interviewer: Uh hum.

Summer: Where it was until like four or five years ago.

Interviewer: And it’s now located where?

Summer: I can’t think of the name of the . . . .

Interviewer: On Morse and Babbitt?

Summer: Babbitt is what I was trying to think, yeah.

Interviewer: Or 161 and Babbitt?

Judy Summer: You wanted to mention about your father and the stadium.

Summer: Oh.

Interviewer: Okay.

Summer: Well my father was chairman of the committee that raised the money to
build the horseshoe at Ohio State.

Interviewer: Goodness . . . .

Summer: It was built by private funds and I forget what it cost. It was I
think a million or a million, two, in 1922 or something like that. And he was
chairman of the committee that raised the money and I remember his having some
fund raisers at our house and meeting some people who, at that point, I didn’t
know who they were but I found out later. There was Jim Lincoln of Lincoln
Electric Company in Cleveland who was one of the first entrepreneurs to
institute profit sharing in his business among the employees, all the employees.
And I just read another article about Lincoln Electric Company. They’re still
doing well. One of them was Harry Drackett of the Drackett Company in
Cincinnati. And if you use Drano in your sink or your toilets, Drano is made by
Harry Drackett, Drano, the Drackett Company.

Interviewer: Well, that’s certainly a household word.

Summer: And one of them was Willard Kiplinger who is almost a household word.
So there were some pretty . . . .

Interviewer: Why is Kiplinger a household word?

Summer: Because of his Kiplinger Washington Letter. I don’t think
Willard Kiplinger is still around any more. His son is signing all the letters

Interviewer: Hmmm.

Summer: So there were some very interested alumni from the Ohio State roster
in those days and it enabled him to raise the private funds to build the

Interviewer: Was your father an alumni of Ohio State?

Summer: Yes.

Interviewer: Uh hum. This is a particularly interesting conversation because
of what is going on here in Columbus today with the National Hockey League and
controversy, well no longer controversy, about how funds will be raised for that

Summer: That’s right.

Interviewer: That’s fascinating. Which will be privately funded, it looks

Summer: Uh huh.

Interviewer: Well now we know where the Ohio State Stadium started.


Interviewer: That’s fascinating. Judy, can you think of any other things
that we should be talking about at this point? Sounds like we’ve had a very
full interviwew and I have to congratulate you. You’ve been blessed with a
wonderful memory and . . . . . .

Summer: It isn’t what it used to be.

Interviewer: Well, but it’s a lot better than a lot of other memories.

Judy Summer: That’s why I am here to help you.

Interviewer: That’s right. Thank goodness you’re both here to help us
along. It’s been a real fascinating opportunity for me to interview you. I’ve
heard your name through the years and I don’t think I’ve ever met you.

Summer: I don’t believe so.

Interviewer: No, and I really appreciate the time that you and Judy have
shared with Joe and me this afternoon. And . . . .

Summer: Been our pleasure.

Interviewer: We look forward to having this on, transcribed eventually,
hopefully, and look forward to meeting you again in the future.

Summer: That will be great.

Interviewer: Thank you both again.

Summer: You’re very welcome.

End of interview