Alan Katz
Interviewer: The date is Friday September 8th and this is Bill Cohen from the Columbus Jewish Historical Society and I’m in the apartment of Alan Katz at Creekside and we’re going to talk to Alan about his life. Alan, let’s start, first of all, do you have, do you have a Hebrew or Jewish name?
Katz: Yes. Avraham.
Interviewer: Avraham, okay and tell me, your parents, what were their names?
Katz: Stella Sue Spira was her maiden name and my father was Morris Katz K-A-T-Z
Interviewer: And can you go back to your grandparents at all? Do you know their names…
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: …maybe where they were from?
Katz: Yes. My, on the Spira side…
Interviewer: an you spell that last name?
Katz: S-p-i-r-a. Spira. My mother was Stella Spira. She was, mother was, had a twin, Zella Spira.
Interviewer: Wait. Your mother had a twin?
Katz: Twin.
Interviewer: Your mother had a twin. Okay. And her parents were who?
Katz: Katie, Katherine Spira, yeah, Katherine Spira was the grandmother, my grandmother and my grandfather was Jesse Spira, interesting guy. He was an immigrant, came to America about 1880’s, 18…late ‘70’s 80’s and…
Interviewer: He came from where?
Katz: He came from Hungary. Hungary and he met my grandmother which was Katherine Freedman, Katy Freedman, and, in Zanesville which was a good, a big center for Jewish peddlers.
Interviewer: That’s where they were, that’s where they met, Zanesville, Ohio.
Katz: Zanesville, Ohio.
Interviewer: You usually don’t think that there were many Jews in Zanesville.
Katz: Must, they had a big population and I’m not sure why he went there because his brother, Grandpa Spira had a brother Henry Spira, went to Cleveland and he was very successful, was very successful guy, Dad’s brother, I mean, Grandpa’s brother. Grandpa was successful.
Interviewer: You said something about peddlers.
Katz: Peddlers, they started as peddlers. It means you went to the store, got the garment, then came outside and the horse or the buggy or if you didn’t have any of those, you walked, so he started with the walking tour, decided to walk around, around Zanesville.
Interviewer: So, they would buy, what would they buy in a store that they would then peddle house to house?
Katz: They really didn’t buy, I was incorrect. They got it from the merchants, went out with the item, and then the items, and then sold the items and came back with the money, paid the merchants and then kept what was for them.
Interviewer: Ah. And what kind of things? What were they selling – clothing or furniture? What were we talking about?
Katz: Clothing, dry goods and then eventually the dry goods became, he became a, what do I want to tell you? He got a store in, I’m not sure why, he ended up with a store in Centerburg, Ohio, Centerburg, Ohio.
Interviewer: Yes, that’s just a little north, northeast of, northeast of Columbus, I think. It’s the center of Ohio.
Katz: Yes, right when you come down the 3 C Highway which I did because we ended up in Buffalo. I was born in Buffalo, Buffalo, New York, coming down the 3 C Highway. You go right through Centerburg. I went through it for a long time until I realized that [sheik?] Grandpa Spira and I didn’t do very much research on him. You know, in those days, they were a very closely-knit family with each other. I didn’t figure, I don’t know if we were friendly with anybody else or not, and what do I want to tell you?
Interviewer: Well, so, your grandpa first got things from stores in Zanesville, and went door to door and then got a kind-of a commission on each sale, but then he was so successful he started his own store in Centerburg.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: Wow.
Katz: Yes. That’s true.
Interviewer: Wow. Okay.
Katz: Now he met my grandmother Katherine, Katy, we, my grandmother, Katy, he met her in Zanes…she was from Zanesville. She had three other sisters, one of three. It’s funny every, there were four in the family, four in the family and let’s see what else I want to tell you. So, Grandpa and Grandma ended up, Grandpa ended up, the store was in Centerburg. I have a picture of the store.
Interviewer: Wow. Now were there any other, did he ever tell you, were there other Jews in Centerburg? Centerburg’s even smaller than Zanesville.
Katz: Well, to tell you the truth, we never discussed anything. Grandpa sat in a chair and don’t remember if he smoked a cigar? I don’t even think so. He just, he sat there listening to, he liked the prize fights, you know?
Interviewer: Oh, the fights.
Katz: The fights. He liked boxing, boxing, and I would go. I would listen with him, you know, like a good grandson and then he was very generous. He, I got, he would give me twenty dollars when he saw me.
Interviewer: Twenty dollars! That was a lot of money back then.
Katz: That’s right. It lasted me almost three, four months ‘til maybe I went back again.
Interviewer: Now you say that you listened to the fights with your grandfather.
Katz: I did.
Interviewer: This was before the, most people had televisions?
Katz: Yes. Exactly. Exactly. You…Jack Demsey. He was a famous boxer.
Interviewer: You remember hearing him fight. Wow.
Katz: Then, but, you know, it was interesting. It was entertainment and…
Interviewer: Now remind us what year were you born?
Katz: 1935.
Interviewer: ’35, so this would have been in the Forties…
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: …when you listened to these fights with your grandfather.
Katz: Exactly.
Interviewer: Now you told us about your grandfather,
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: …in Zanesville and Centerburg. He started as a peddler. Then he got his own store.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: Now can you tell us anything about your grandparents on the other side?
Katz: Not too much. It was funny. I think my mom, Mother was educated and…let’s see, what U.S….
Interviewer: Your mother herself was educated or your mother’s mother are we talking about?
Katz: No, I was talking about my mother herself.
Interviewer: Your mother herself. She was educated. Where? Tell us.
Katz: Mother went to Ohio State. Mother came from, let’s see, they moved to Columbus about the time of her high school and Mother came from a family, Mother had a family of two other sisters and a brother. That’s a family of four counting my mother and she was good in math. My mother became a pharmacist. I used to ask her, you know, “Why did you become a pharmacist?” Well, I’ll tell you for one thing. Remembering some history, I love history. Prohibition in the 1920’s, correct? Started what, 1920/21, lasted until Roosevelt came in 1933/32-ish. So, people really all went to a drug store. It was a very demanding, it was popular. It was a good thing to work in a drug store even better to own it if it was decent, but it’s like all other businesses. If it’s not decent, why own it? You might as well work for the next person, so…
Interviewer: You asked your mother, “Why did you want to be a pharmacist?”
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: What did she say?
Katz: “I’m good in math,” which she was.
Interviewer: You have to be good in math.
Katz: Mother said that. Well, remember Mother’s time. Most of the drugs were sort of prepared yourself. You made pills. You made liquids. The liquids were, oh what’s… mostly, you know, mostly tinctures. It means you take the drug and you soak it with alcohol and eventually the stuff comes out of the [stuff?] the medicine you’re putting in to the alcohol and you can calculate the amount and you know the percentage. You know the dosing.
Interviewer: So, you’re saying back then the pharmacists made the medicines themselves.
Katz: Yes, made the medicines. They rolled their own pills, you know. You know, you call pills, today pills, I have to take my pills. They’re not, those, it’s tablets.
Interviewer: Yes.
Katz: When the tablets came in, when, probably around the 1910s or, maybe by, maybe by the beginning of the century, but most of the time you had to have the equipment to make the tablets. It was more involved than rolling your own, but the basic ingredients were the same, how you would go about doing it, you know. You’d put a little, you put the powders, you weigh them out, calculate the amount of medication patient’s going to be taking from the prescription the doctor wrote, and you rolled your own. You add a little of, you know, a little bit of syrup. If you add syrup to powder, you know, eventually you get, like, a little ball, right? Yeah, you take ‘em in your hand, you know, and you rub ‘em, right? And after a while you get, like, a long string, like a snake, right? And then you take part of it and you got a pill tile with grooves and you cut it and then you get the other part of it and you roll it in your fingers. Roll your own. Did I ever roll pills? No, but…
Interviewer: Your mother did…
Katz: Mother did.
Interviewer: …back in those days. Now to be a woman and to be a pharmacist back then, that was pretty rare. Women didn’t often have those kinds of jobs.
Katz: That’s right. Well, Mother, she was a very determined woman and she, she raised me right. I can’t stop working and my mother was a worker, you know? She was a very hard-working lady.
Interviewer: So, she’s the one that inspired you. You became a pharmacist.
Katz: But, I was, no, Mother wanted me to be a doctor, a lawyer, or a dentist. My dad was a dentist, but he was a dentist of the “old school,” my dad, where you, you know, three hours for a filling, no matter how many sites you had to do, at five dollars for an extraction, maybe a plate for your mouth. I would go with my, let’s see, plates or dentures, hundred bucks, hundred and fifty bucks, maybe. So, yes, you made a, he made a nice living. Mother, I don’t think thought he really made much money or not enough money so, most of the time, Mother would be on the warpath with him, but…
Interviewer: She would be on the warpath to say to your father, ‘You need to earn more money,’ or what?
Katz: Oh, she never said that. It was very, it was very sneaky. She just told me that. I was kind of the intermediary which is, it’s good and bad. I mean, you find out a lot of stuff.
Interviewer: She told you of her frustrations.
Katz: Of course, but she was always [? ] Poor Mother. She… I don’t know.
Interviewer: So, your father was a dentist.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: Your mother was a pharmacist.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: And now, remind me the two names again of your mother and father?
Katz: Morris and he was known as “KC [Casey?]”, got that from World War I. My dad was in the dental corps in the army, this was during World War I.
Interviewer: Was he over in Europe?
Katz: No. He never, he never, he never left Buffalo, but they all have a status of a veteran of World War I, although, thank God, he didn’t have to get a rifle and go out and get killed which so many did, of course, enormous casualties.
Interviewer: Now you told us about your grandparents that were in Zanesville and Centerburg…
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: …and then your father, those were the parents of your mother.
Katz: Thank you. Yes, that’s correct. Yes, thank you.
Interviewer: And so, how did, you were raised, you were born in Buffalo.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: How did your parents wind up in Buffalo?
Katz: Because Dad was from Buffalo and Dad had a practice in Buffalo and I used to go with him. I hung out with my father a great deal. So, poor Mother didn’t see him a whole lot, maybe. You know, I’m sure there was a lot of tensions, but they were all nice to me. So, I was only a little kid then, right?
Interviewer: So, you used to go with your father and watch him do dental work?
Katz: Yeah. Yeah. I used to do that.
Interviewer: Really? You would stand there and he would be drilling somebody’s teeth?
Katz: That’s right, or pulling them out. I even held, he had a rubber bowl, you know. You could put things into this – how do I want to tell you – plaster of Paris was used as the, for the impression. You gotta’ get an impression once you pull them out, providing the person, you know, makes it through all this process.
Interviewer: Do you remember hearing people yell and scream at the pain?
Katz: Not really. I don’t remember that, seriously. I wasn’t, I don’t know if I ever saw him exactly extract a tooth, but I would go with him. Maybe, and this office Dad had, it was up twenty, twenty-five, twenty-four/twenty-five steps. I used to count them, you know? So, it was of “old school” you know? Second floor-type operation. Well, today, people wouldn’t stand for that, right? They’d want, well, they got an elevator.
Interviewer: So, you were born, what year were you born?
Katz: 1935.
Interviewer: In Buffalo, New York.
Katz: Yes. Yes.
Interviewer: Okay. So, you were in Buffalo until, how old? How many years were you in Buffalo before you moved?
A: Well, actually, we, it was small town. I was born in North Tonawanda, Tonawanda.
Interviewer: Near Buffalo.
Katz: Near Buffalo, a suburb of Buffalo you might say, but we just called suburbs, it was, in those days they didn’t talk about, you know, suburbs much, so, we commuted right down the main drag of the little town, Tonawanda, was North Tonawanda was where his office was. We lived behind his office.
Interviewer: You lived behind his office.
Katz: We lived behind the office.
Interviewer: In the same building.
Katz: Same building. It was owned by a real nice doctor that was very kind to our family, too, Dr Molner (?). Dr. Molner was his name, awful nice man I remember, and…
Interviewer: So, did you go to school in your early years in Buffalo? Or Tonawanda?
Katz: Yes. Tonawanda and then we moved to Buffalo at the end of the War, 1945, moved to Buffalo.
Interviewer: When you were about ten, you moved to Buffalo.
Katz: That’s right.
Interviewer: So, you were in public schools.
Katz: Yes, public schools and I went to, it was very nice. It was difficult. My public school education in Buffalo was difficult because Mother enrolled me in this real fancy-dancy place, that, school, and every kid in town wanted to get into it, or every kids’ mother wanted boys, kids to go there. Now, it was, a very few Jews, as usual.
Interviewer: Because Jews were such a small part of the population or because they were kept out by quotas?
Katz: Probably both. Probably both, Bill.
Interviewer: So, you were one of the few Jews.
Katz: I was one of the few.
Interviewer: That was hard? Tell me about it.
Katz: Well, being a Jew, it’s not real smart. It’s problematic. It makes you feel like a real, you know, like a, you know, kind of a, out of sync, you know? I had great difficulty in that school, scholastic difficulty, scholastic difficulty, so…
Interviewer: How about socially? Was it…?
Katz: I was good always good socially. No. No.
Interviewer: You had friends.
Katz: Friends and girls. I really liked the girls. I was lucky in that respect, you know. So, I guess I was a good shmoozer. I don’t know what the hell it was.
Interviewer: So, the Jews got along okay with the non-Jews?
Katz: Yep. Oh yeah, they were pretty nice to you, when there’s only two of you of three of you in the class, class of thirty. I mean, it was just the way it was in those days. I mean, you know. I really didn’t see a lot of Jews when I was in Tonawanda. You didn’t see that many Jewish people. There weren’t any at all. There was a Jewish druggist, pharmacist. They used to see him socially and we’d go in his drug store all the time, and sometimes my dad liked to play cards and I was playing and I would run the cash register in the drug store.
Interviewer: While he was playing cards, in the back, you were tending the store?
Katz: Sort of. Well, you know he was real close to you. You could yell to him, so I did that but yet, it’s funny, with my life, I never thought about pharmacy until I got a prior degree in bacteriology at Ohio State. I never thought about being a pharmacist. Then it dawned on me. I went into this, I went into the service, it wasn’t the service. It wasn’t really much of a, tiny, I was in a program where thirty, once a month we were weekend warriors. It was…
Interviewer: This was called the Reserves?
Katz: I was in the Reserves.
Interviewer: Now what years would this have been?
Katz: Nineteen, let’s see, the Reserves…
Interviewer: This was while you were, was this while you were at Ohio State?
Katz: No. It was after. I was already a pharmacist when I signed up for the program. So, the program was thirty, let’s see, it was a five and a-half year obligation. You did it for five and a-half years. You went once a month on the weekends and then two weeks in the summer. We were called weekend warriors.
Interviewer: But that’s how you fulfilled your military obligation.
Katz: That’s how I fulfilled my military obligation. So…
Interviewer: This was after you went to Ohio State…
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: …and after you became a pharmacist.
Katz: Yes. I commuted to. commuted, I got in the car and I took Sandy. At the time we had one of our daughters – we have three daughters – took one of, the daughter that was in the house, took her to Dayton. The base was in Dayton. I went to Lacka…no, no
Interviewer: Wright- Patterson.
Katz: Wright-Patterson. Thank you so much.
Interviewer: That’s where you would go to do your weekend…
Katz: Now wait a minute. Nope. I’d like to correct that. I did, I went to Wilmington, Ohio. There was an Air Force base in Clinton County. I forgot the name of the little town in Clinton County had an Air Force base.
Interviewer: Well, Wilmington.
Katz: Wilmington. Good boy. Wilmington, and it was the cutest little base. They’d line the airplanes up right at the street. You could see 119s. I didn’t fly anything. I was a, when I went in I was a [?] Private, I was an Airman Basic, walked, then you get a stripe, so the entire service was five and a-half years, once a month, two weeks in the summer, and I got out. I was a Staff Sergeant. Well, rank was even easier, was not, remember this was non-war setting. We didn’t have any conflicts while I was there. Almost, I can’t remember anything much during my, during the service period.
Interviewer: Now, what did you do in the military? What was your job?
Katz: My job in the military was, they give you a test. Everyone gets a test going in and from the test they look at what you score. Now, so, I scored the best on, oh, uh, not science thing, what the heck, it wasn’t, well, whatever it was, I ended up a supply man so, then I went to the supply school. Then I went to, then they send you to, I ended up in Cheyenne, Wyoming at a supply school again, for about, maybe that was two months I was at supply school.
Interviewer: Supply school means you oversee items that the military needs.
Katz: That’s right. That’s exactly right.
Interviewer: Such as what? What kind of items are we talking?
Katz: Well, supply school they teach us the numbers. You know, they got 15-digit numbers, right? The first four means one thing. The next three means something else. Then the endings mean something else. So, it’s not a simple, it’s a simple procedure, trust me, it has to be.
Interviewer: They make it complex.
Katz: They make it complex.
Interviewer: Are we talking about when you were in charge of supplies, are we talking about guns and bombs and airplanes or are we talking about toilet paper and boots and things the average soldier needs?
Katz: Right. That’s right. That’s right. I never really, remember, remember that, I mean, I fired a gun but the nearest I really got to guns was not very near, you know, not very close to them, so, but I would take Sandy and the kids, kids, whoever we had in the house. We had just one at that time and then as I was getting out we had another daughter. We ended up with three daughters We had another, our second daughter, and Sandy was from Dayton. I dropped Sandy off in Dayton and go to Wilmington, remember, so I could go from Dayton to Wilmington. Well, no, see, the kids, we were already at the house in Dayton.
Interviewer: Oh, you lived in Dayton then for a while. Okay.
Katz: No. No, I just commuted to Dayton. I took the family to Dayton, whoever was in the house. I just had one. I had Jody and from there we, when I was in Dayton, then I got in the car, I was in the car, took the car and I went to Air Force Base. Sandy remained in Dayton with Jody, did the daily service, had to be there at nine in the morning and then when I was over at five o’clock, got in the car and then I could, I went back to Dayton and…
Interviewer: That’s where you lived.
Katz: Well, that’s where, Sandy was from, Dayton, That’s where Sandy lived with her mom and dad.
Interviewer: Oh, this was before you got married. No.
Katz: No. We were married already.
Interviewer: And you were living in Dayton.
Katz: Uh, no we were just commuting. We were living in Columbus.
Interviewer: Oh, okay. I think I understand. You would drop, on your way to Wilmington, you would take your wife to Dayton to visit or whatever with her parents.
Katz: She stayed in Dayton for that time of my, once a month she went on the weekends and then you had to have two months, not two months, you had training two weeks in the summer. So, I would bring Sandy.
Interviewer: I understand. So, you uh, you were in Buffalo, as a child you were in Buffalo and then you came from Buffalo to Columbus at some point to go to Ohio State.
Katz: That’s right.
Interviewer: And do you know what year that was that you entered Ohio State?
Katz: I do. 1953. Yeah, I was at Ohio State in 1953.
Interviewer: You were about eighteen.
Katz: That’s right.
Interviewer: And you came. So, you graduated high school.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: You came to Columbus, basically, for the first time to go to Ohio State, and you were in pharmacy school?
Katz: But, let me see, Bill. I had been to Columbus from Buffalo many, many times…
Interviewer: Oh.
Katz: …because Mother was a Columbus girl and always wanted to go see her family.
Interviewer: Yes, okay. I get it.
Katz: So, I knew Dayton [ Columbus?] almost better than Buffalo.
Interviewer: Let’s go back just a second here.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: There are so many things that are interesting here. Your mother was raised in Columbus…
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: …and she went to high school here. Do you what high school she might have gone to?
Katz: Well, she went to East High School. Mother was raised at East High School. I mean, went to East High School and it was on, not Broad Street like it is today. You know where East is as you’re going up and down Broad Street?
Interviewer: Right.
Katz: You know? But…
Interviewer: East was somewhere else?
Katz: Yes, it was somewhere very close to, it’s across from, what’s the name of that park, uh…
Interviewer: Franklin Park?
Katz: From Franklin Park.
Interviewer: Well, that’s where it is now, East High School.
Katz: Well, it’s on Broad but it wasn’t on Broad Street. It was…
Interviewer: Really?
Katz: …on a street that was around the park, someplace, a street, and they had their own building. The Spira’s mother went there.
Interviewer: Wow. Okay. I know, we do know that a lot of Jewish youngsters did attend East High School at some point.
Katz: Yes.
[Transcriber note: East High School was originally at 1390 Franklin Avenue, opened 2-17-1899, in 1923 moved to East Broad location. ]
Interviewer: And so, your mother, I guess, is a good example of that.
Katz: Yes. Yes. My children later went to Walnut Ridge, but that’s jumping around.
Interviewer: Yeah. So, you came to, you basically, though, came, to Columbus for a while to go to Ohio State.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: And you got a pharmacy degree?
Katz: Yes. Actually, I came for four years. I got a degree. It was in pre-dentistry. Pre-dentistry.
Interviewer: That’s right because your mother wanted you to become a dentist.
Katz: Mother wanted me to become a dentist, but guess what? I was so lousy with my hands. That’s correct. I, I would have broken every denture I made, so…
Interviewer: The word was dexterity.
Katz: Dexterity.
Interviewer: That’s what you had to have.
Katz: Exactly. I never made puzzles. I never did anything with my hands, you know. It’s, so I was so glad to go into pharmacy. I thought about that when I was in the Air Force. I was sitting around. You know how it is in a peacetime situation, you know. Hurry up and wait. You gotta’ be in a place but then the guys who came to the place, they were late all the time. This peacetime…
Interviewer: That’s when you started pondering the idea of being a pharmacist, like your mother.
Katz: That’s right. When I told my mother, she didn’t say a word, but before, she was adamant that I would be a dentist, a doctor or a lawyer, and I did go through the rudiments of the law. I took an interview since I had a prior degree, law school in 19…, when did all this evolve, the time that I was for the law, I mean that I was considering all this stuff to do. I was already, 18, I was about, not 18, but I was already a graduate. I was 22, 23 years old when I decided on pharmacy. Sandy taught school. She was a graduate of education, my Sandy. She taught school. We lived in the Beverly Manor, that big apartment complex on Broad Street, not Broad, on James, James and, near Maryland, Maryland Avenue.
Interviewer: James and Maryland.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: That sounds like it was close to Bexley.
Katz: Close to Bexley. It was a big complex, so, once a month I would go to the Air Force, to complete my obligation, and…
Interviewer: Now, remind me, remind me your wife was Sandy. Her maiden name was…?
Katz: Teres, T-e-r-e-s.
Interviewer: T-e-r-e-s.
Katz: Sandy had an identical, she was identical twins with her sister. Where my mom was a twin. They were not identical. Sandy was identical with her sister in Dayton, and boy, did I get confused? No. I got the right twin. Some guy says to me, I had a buddy and he says to me. “You marry, you should date Sandy.” This was back in the times we were both dating and she [?he] says, “You date Sandy,” and I’m grateful. The other girl was a nice girl but I don’t think I would have done as nicely with the other girl.
Interviewer: Now, how did you meet Sandy?
Katz: An open house, open house, and….
Interviewer: Where was that at?
Katz: A E Phi House.
Interviewer: A fraternity here at OSU?
Katz: Sorority.
Interviewer: A sorority. Oh, it was the sorority.
Katz: Sorority.
Interviewer: So, you were at OSU and you were invited to this sorority party?
Katz: Well, you heard about it. You didn’t get no, you didn’t get no invitations, Bill. You just went, you know? ‘Hey, where ya’ going?’ ‘Well, there’s an open house at’ so-and so. You know, if you were, I mean, I was lucky all my life. I had a wonderful family and [truth ?] I had a nice wife and she was so cute and so when I went up to her, I went up to her to the wrong twin because I went up to her sister looking for Sandy, you see? Her sister was a nice girl. She really was, is, or was, and, but Sandy was so much kinder and warm and you know, affectionate, not affectionate, she was just easy to be with, easy to be with, Bill.
Interviewer: So, you got married to Sandy.
Katz: Yeah.
Interviewer: What year was that?
Katz: That year was 1950… she graduated, she had just graduated from education, oh, shoot, 1958, yeah ‘cause my first time around graduating was ’57. I was the Class of ’57. Sandy was the Class of ’58. She was a year younger than me.
Interviewer: You graduated Ohio State in ’57.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: She graduated in ’58…
Katz: That’s correct.
Interviewer: …with an education degree and you were married then.
Katz: Then I went to the Air Force.
Interviewer: That’s when you did your Reserves.
Katz: I had to go to basic training. Went to Laughlin, in Texas.
Interviewer: Yes, you told us about some of that, your Reserve duty. And so, where did you live after you got married? Is that when you settled in the Beverly Apartments?
Katz: We were settling before in the Beverly when I went to pharmacy school.
Interviewer: Okay.
Katz: That’s right. When we got married, our place to live was at those apartments.
Interviewer: At the Beverly.
Katz: Right and remember I had a big mishpocha here. I had, all the Spiras were alive, cousins, and…
Interviewer: And they were all here in Columbus?
Katz: Yes. I liked the fact that, you know, I’d been in Columbus. I was already the four years I was at Ohio State. Then I went to, I got another three years for pharmacy. It was a five-year program but they gave me credit for some time, so, I didn’t have to go another five years. I mean, so, I went, I went, see, eight years, what’d I go? I went, see, four, I went seven years for a five-year course. Pharmacy was five years, in those days. Now it’s, you know, the kids are eight years, they go, God knows, seven/eight years. Seven/eight years.
Interviewer: So, tell us about your Jewish identity and your Jewish practice. Were you raised to be observant when you were a child and a teenager? Were your parents observant or were you more just culturally Jewish? Tell us about that.
Katz: Well, I felt we were the ty’, very typical, but, we were, I think, raised with, with the idea of ‘Don’t make any noise. Don’t’ tell ‘em you’re Jewish. Don’t get in trouble.’ You know, all the parameters that, but it was, it was fine. I mean, I, there was enough Jewish girls to go around. When I got to Buffalo, there were no Jewish folks in Tonawanda. None. There was, there were I never met their children, I think, there were older folks, but now, it’s very popular, this very place that I drove by, from where I lived, you know, lived, was a very pop… became a very popular area in Buffalo, so, when people say they’re from Buffalo, I knew exactly where they were living off of.
Interviewer: Do you remember going to synagogue very much, as a child, or a teenager?
Katz: Yeah, well, I remember the drives from Buffalo, down Delaware Avenue. It would take you all the way to the temple. Now, what, that was about a half hour, 40 minutes maybe in the car, so, you leave at 10:00, you sure as hell aren’t going to arrive at 10:00. Sometimes, I still do, that’s crazy things today. You know, I got an appointment and ‘I’m not leaving the house,’ you know, ‘three minutes before.’ Now, that’s irresponsible. You don’t have to tell me.
Interviewer: Was this a Reform synagogue?
Katz: Yes. Temple Beth Zion.
Interviewer: Beth Zion.
Katz: Beth Zion and at that time, I was friendly with the rabbi’s son and one day I was at his house and he’s got a Chris…a Christmas tree.
Interviewer: The rabbi’s house had a Christmas tree?
Katz: Yeah, so, I says to the rabbi’s son, you know, his name was Arnold. “Arnold, why? What is this with the Christmas tree?” He says, “No. It’s a Hanukkah bush.”
Interviewer: That’s very Reform rabbi. Fascinating.
Katz: Yeah, he later became a rabbi.
Interviewer: The son became a rabbi.
Katz: And the son’s, rabbi’s son, I think he had a rabbi. [Oh, this is Jody]
Interviewer: So, now, were you bar mitzvahed?
Katz: Yes, I was.
Interviewer: What do you remember about that?
Katz: I remember three lines in the Torah beginning “Vayedaber breishees,” stop right there, but I don’t really remember and you had to make a speech, but I was only up there for a few, I was only up there for maybe the exact Torah portion. I think it was only like 10, 15 minutes. It couldn’t have been more than 15 minutes. Then you gave a speech, you know, how grateful you are to be here and all the good things that…
Interviewer: You gave the speech “Dear Rabbi Cantor, Parents and Friends.’
Katz: Right. That’s correct. ‘Today I am a fountain pen.’ Something, my upbringing was a very mild, Jewish…you know, I was Jewish. I even got me a Jewish cat. That’s my cat down there. She’s so cute. So, but my religious affiliation was very loose but I ran around with Jewish people, married a Jewish girl, and, plus I didn’t have that much trouble as being Jewish, you know, no…
Interviewer: You don’t remember any anti-Semitism against you.
Katz: Just a tiny little bit.
Interviewer: What do you remember?
Katz: Driving my bicycle that – my dad and mom bought me a bike – down the street. Some lady yells outside the door, “Look at that Jew on a bike! Look at that Jew on a bike!” but that was the extent. I didn’t, I didn’t hear that much. I didn’t hear it or ignored it, you know, [?]you ignore so many things that you don’t hear it. Somebody says something to you, but, basically, if you keep your nose clean, so-to-speak, that’s, which is, Mother was very emphatic and my father. Mother was the one that was raising me mostly. Dad was very comforting and he was satisfied with whatever I did. My mother was very particular so, I wasn’t a great student and then I went to this fancy-dancy school I think I told you about.
Interviewer: Yeah, your mother was the one who said, ‘Now, study hard, don’t make problems.’ The message you got was because you were Jewish you had to be extra-specially good and competent and…
Katz: Exactly. Beautiful. Beautifully said. I resented that. I didn’t want to be Jewish because I had so much things I was supposed to do, sort-of, or I had goals, yes, but I don’t know what goals I had, to tell you the truth, just wanted to get out of the house with Mom and, you know, and be still a loving son and that kind of stuff, but Mother raised a lot of, a lot of stuff with me.
Interviewer: You felt it was a burden…
Katz: Burden.
Interviewer: …because you had to work harder or you felt that.
Katz: Exactly, like they were smarter than me. Why were theses guys so smart? ‘Oh, they’re Jewish. Oh, Jews are all smart.’ Sometimes I think, in a non-Jewish way, swear to you.
Interviewer: Now I understand. Now I understand better. You felt you were under a burden, not just to behave well…
Katz: That’s correct.
Interviewer: …but to accomplish more because you were Jewish because other Jews were doing that.
Katz: That’s right. Bill, perfect. I should record that one. Record that one that you said.
Interviewer: Fascinating.
Katz: It’s true. It’s true, but it didn’t hurt me. Look what I’ve got – nice family, and the wife. I picked the right girl. I picked Sandy and she was interested in me. She would wait on High Street when I would walk up from the lab, you know, the chemistry. I’d take a lot of chemistry. I didn’t mind that. Then I had to take more chemistry in pharmacy school. I didn’t take the right chemistry so, I had to take more chemistry but it was interesting. I liked organic chemistry. It’s fascinating how you can manipulate a molecule and you can get a different product. I liked that.
Interviewer: So, just again touching on your Jewish…
Katz: Go ahead.
Interviewer: …upbringing and so forth.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: So, you’re not that observant but you have a Jewish identity…
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: …and you feel proud of being Jewish…
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: …and that has continued through your life…
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: …and you still…
Katz: Yes. I did and then when I bought a drug store, I had a drug store and then I sold that one and then when we had another place, but it was a terrific place. His name was Pearson Press. I’m indebted to him for the rest of my life. I was indebted. I felt that he helped me so much because he wanted me to be successful, so he says to me, “If you’re successful in this store, I want you to donate more money to Jewish causes,” he says to me and I was, because everything just clicked in that store. I had the best pharmacists that worked with me. It was just busy. If you came in the store, it was just busy, either with prescriptions or directing folks in the store that worked with me. I had a wonderful, it was just, it was really good.
Interviewer: So, this guy said, ‘I want you to be successful and if you are I want you to donate more money to Jewish causes.
Katz: That’s correct.
Interviewer: So, how did that work? Is that what happened?
Katz: Yes. That’s right. My whole life after that, it was different. It changed. As far as my philanthropy, and I’ve tried hard, not just to other causes. I did things that were non-Jewish, I mean, you know. So many, if it’s Alzheimer’s Association…
Interviewer: Alzheimer’s Association.
Katz: What else do I give to? Oh, the hospital, oh, Saint…
Interviewer: St. Jude? Danny Thomas’s?
Katz: Yes. I liked Danny Thomas, too. Then I did with The Ohio State, Children’s Hospital, Children’s Hospital.
Interviewer: The James? That’s the Cancer Hospital? You’ve given to that.
Katz: More, not too much to Ohio State but to the Children’s Hospital.
Interviewer: Oh, Children’s Hospital.
Katz: Yes, through the Alumni -am I jumping too much? – I got active in the pharmacy alumni. When I did pharmacy alumni, I found my niche in the alumni. I was friends with two guys, non-Jewish fellows, that were very active and they were, like, what’s the word, they were, like, important-type guys at the schools, not in pharmacy school, but in pharmacy they had a lot of, a lot of friends in organizations and they got me into the Academy of Pharmacy of Central Ohio, or, they didn’t get me in. They told me about it and I…but I had a hobby which I pursued because of them. I became a collector of pharmacy memorabilia. Before you leave, I’ll make you see, just take it, one minute. Let me show you. I got, reminisce of it. Most of it disappeared. I sold some stuff, but I wasn’t much of a seller, I was, and not much of a buyer. I would just buy one or two items. If you were trying to, if I, the place to buy from you and you had a whole basket of it, I’d only take one or two items that I knew for sure I wanted. I didn’t, I didn’t want to have fifty of something. My friends had fifty of this one, fifty of that one, but it was all in boxes. I said to myself, “I’ll never buy unless I have a place to put it,” so I could see it when I came in. You’ll see what I’ve got now.
Interviewer: So, you’ve got, you’re talking about things like mortars and pestles…
Katz: Excellent.
Interviewer: test tubes and microscopes…
Katz: That’s right. A balance. A balance is right under there, under the TV set.
Interviewer: Fascinating.
Katz: Yeah. Very interesting, so, I owe a great deal to those two, those two guys. One fellow died. I was even a pall bearer for him. I was the only Jew there but he was such a, he was nice to me, and the other fella was a little bit, not quite as befriendlyish, as friendly, maybe that’s the word, but they were nice boys, nice fellas.
Interviewer: So, this pharmacy that you began at, Pearson Press?
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: And where was that located?
Katz: Well, he had three, he had three stores, one on Main Street and then on, off of, oh, I can’t think of that, Bill, the road, but, my friend Harry, my best friends ended up as pharmacists, although I swore, the fellas that were already existing in pharmacy in Columbus, I really didn’t have a feeling for them. They seemed to be so into themselves as a group and I was outside that group. I didn’t go to school with those guys and, although they went to Ohio State, I was at the same place, but it was just different.
Interviewer: But, yet, your two, one or two of your best friends were pharmacists you’re saying.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: Okay.
Katz: I got a third best friend down in Florida, Carl Cohen, Carl Cohen, worked 53 years for Walgreen’s, 53 years.
Interviewer: Now, tell us about this, the Pearson Press store that you worked at to start, that was on Main Street?
Katz: No.
Interviewer: Where was that?
Katz: That was on Hudson. It was at Hudson and Joyce.
Interviewer: Huson and Joyce, that’s Linden, the Linden neighborhood.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: That’s what we call it now.
Katz: Right. Linden. You’re right. It was from Linden.
Interviewer: So, did you end up owning that pharmacy?
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: You started just as the pharmacist, but then…
Katz: That’s right. I worked for him.
Interviewer: …later you wound up owning that pharmacy.
Katz: Owning that store, yes.
Interviewer: And did you own other stores or that was the one?
Katz: Prior to that I owned one other, I owned a store. They built it right across form the Beverly Manor. It was built in the shopping center right across from Beverly Manor.
Interviewer: Near James and Maryland?
Katz: Yes. Exactly.
Interviewer: There was a pharmacy there? That’s what you’re saying.
Katz: Yes. It was a brand-new store had opened by two Jewish guys, two Jewish guys. It’s funny. All my owners that I bought stores from were Jewish.
Interviewer: You bought the store from those two Jewish guys.
Katz: From Pearson I bought that store, but prior to Pearson, I bought a store at where I was working. I had not worked for Pearson before, but he gave me such an opportunity: “You can work the store. If you like it, you can buy it.” Now, what could be better?
Interviewer: It worked out well.
Katz: It worked out wonderful.
Interviewer: How many years were you a pharmacist?
Katz: About 50 plus. Started, got out of pharmacy school in ’61. Forty, I’m sorry, 40, it wasn’t 50 because…
Interviewer: Forty years. That’s enough.
Katz: It was really, but I liked it. At the end, I was a floater for Rite-Aid. You know, Rite-Aid came to Columbus, bought Gray Drug. I had worked for Gray Drug. Then going back to my mother, my mother worked for a drug chain called Mykrantz, Jewish family.
Interviewer: Mykrantz.
Katz: Mykrantz.
Interviewer: Can you spell that?
Katz: M-y, myc-r-a-n…c-h is it? Mykrantz?
Interviewer: …t-z at the end maybe?
Katz: Maybe at the end. Mykrantz. [transcriber note: spelling is Mykrantz] was purchased by Gray Drug Firm out of Cleveland. Had stores all the way down in Florida. They had stores in Florida, then they, I don’t know where else. They sort of stuck to that.
Interviewer: What’s interesting about your career is, that you had almost, except for your last few years where you did work for Rite-Aid, a big corporate chain,…
Katz: Yes,
Interviewer: You spent almost your entire pharmaceutical career in what we could call today a mom-and-pop pharmacy, an independent, you, just one, two or three stores. That’s what symbolized the old pharmacy industry.
Katz: That’s quite a, I might correct the summary that you just said to the extent of I had a lot of experience working, also, I did a lot of freelance, freelance. I worked, a lot of, people would call me and remember my time, there weren’t, we always had a shortage, so I picked something not knowing how nice it was to get a job, but I loved that fact if you were too crappy to me as a worker, I could always find another job, so, therefore, management had to be a little careful not to piss you off too much.
Interviewer: But, most of the time, you were with Pearson Press either working for them or you owned the store at some point…
Katz: Exactly.
Interviewer: …but you’re saying you also helped work at some of the chains.
Katz: Other stores would call and then I knew Ben, there was a guy, oh, Ben…there was Al Blank and Ted Shlonsky were Jewish. Sy Cooper was Jewish, of course, and he employed a guy named Dick Solove, Richard Solove. Very nice fellow, by the way, who later became the real estate owner and all that stuff. He was a pharmacist, Solove.
Interviewer: So, there was kind of a community of Jewish pharmacists.
Katz: There was. There was, exactly. Kohns, Irv and Jerry Kohn were Jewish, owned a stores, owned a store on, I forget the name, what street. They were very, very popular, were very well, they specialized in compounding and physician business, which is no different than any other business. Physicians are good business people also, of course, and you know, you had a, you’d have a good deal, but then, of course, they might send you their prescription business, or direct them in a nice way. There is a, some pharmacy regulations about that but there’s no regulation on a physician of where he wants to, he can tell you, “Don’t go to Allen pharmacy. He’s a schmuck.” You know? “Don’t go over there.” He can tell you that and there’s nothing you can do. You can’t get him on any unethical or any other terms. I know that from a friend of mine that had a lot of stuff going and a physician wanted a piece of his business. Yes, some can be extremely aggressive.
Interviewer: And he said, “No” …
Katz: “No.”
Interviewer: …and then the doctor had revenge…
Katz: That’s right.
Interviewer: …by telling his patients, ‘Don’t go to that pharmacy.’
Katz: That’s right and the guy couldn’t do a damn thing about that, not a damn, he ended up closing up, but, thank goodness, he was so busy with his, with the business, that he would still survive, but that schmuck, the doctor, but that doesn’t mean there’s not schmuck pharmacists. There’s every, you find characters no matter what we do, Bill.
Interviewer: Right.
Katz: Am I right?
Interviewer: Yes. So, tell me, your wife is Sandy…
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: …and you had, tell us about your, your offspring, your daughters? Who did you have?
Katz: Oh, we’ve got Jody, Susie and Michelle. Michelle – the girl who just stuck her head in the door.
Interviewer: Three daughters.
Katz: Got three daughters and we had five weddings, five weddings. I didn’t survive, I only survived, I only gave them three weddings. The two that divorced and remarried, I didn’t do anything.
Interviewer: You said, ‘You’re on your own.’
Katz: That’s right. When did this [reset? ]… you know. The other girls, their father does this and that for ‘em, you know? You know, you got a hundred dollar a month apartment, they got the three-hundred-dollar apartment. You get the one-hundred-dollar apartment, but I was raised that way, Bill. I’m comfortable spending minimal amounts, but I wouldn’t go to somebody and say, “ Oh, you want two dollars for that? I’ll give you a dollar,” or, “You want ten cents for that? I’ll give you a nickel.” I never did that in my life.
Interviewer: You didn’t bargain people…
Katz: I didn’t bargain people.
Interviewer: …but at the same time, you didn’t overspend.
Katz: I didn’t overspend. If you don’t do that and you’ve got a wife like I had, Sandy was happy. I had a house, started with a house in Coburg, off Livingston. It was a nice house. It was a nice house.
Interviewer: Was that the Berwick area?
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: Okay.
Katz: Berwick area, not Berwick, Berwick, called something else. It was not the Berwick area.
Interviewer: Eastmoor?
Katz: No, it wasn’t Eastmoor. It was…
Interviewer: Maybe Berwyn,
Katz: Maybe Berwyn.
Interviewer: …but close to Berwick.
Katz: That’s right. That’s right.
Interviewer: Off of Livingston.
Katz: That’s right. Then when I had got a little more money, I was ready to move. I thought maybe Sandy wanted to move, but she wanted to move to Bexley and I told her, no, I didn’t want to go to Bexley.
Interviewer: Because?
Katz: I went to school with a lot of those guys in Bexley, Jewish guys and before I went in to pharmacy, I went four years at Ohio State and another three years for pharmacy, but the four years I went to Ohio State, I knew them. I went to school with a bunch of Bexley boys.
Interviewer: Okay, and you didn’t like them well, or…?
Katz: No.
Interviewer: You didn’t like them.
Katz: Well, they were nice to me. They just weren’t friendly. I wasn’t part of the group. I was not from Bexley, so, I became resentful.
Interviewer: So, you decided you’re not going to move your family to Bexley. So, where did you go instead?
Katz: Went around Temple Israel. It was off of Noe Bixby. That’s where we bought a house.
Interviewer: The Far East side.
Katz: Far East and it was wonderful, had a beautiful house. I liked it.
Interviewer: And is that why your children went to Walnut Ridge’s High School?
Katz: Yes. Exactly, and you know, Sandy never wanted more. One time she did mention. The country club had a special. I could have been a member of the country club. Then I got worried, if I join the country club, number one, it was too expensive. If I join the country club, what do I do with the friends I already had. You lose them. You lose them unless they’re in the county club, too. None of them wanted to join the country club, so, therefore, I’d lose them, the people I already had, and Sandy was so popular with the women that she could blend anywhere. She was likeable, she was very good looking, Sandy’s good looking today. I mean, really. I was attracted by her immediately. Yes, she was good-looking and she was smart, two damn good attributes, wouldn’t you say?
Interviewer: Yes. So, you decided you wouldn’t join the country club because you wanted to keep your old friends.
Katz: That’s right. Then she didn’t mention going to New Albany but, I put that down because I didn’t want to go to New Albany with all the rich Jews, with all the rich people. I don’t know. Yet, I probably made as much or more than they did because I didn’t spend it all, Bill. I didn’t spend it. You don’t have to work so God-damn hard if you don’t spend it all, you know? You don’t buy a, you know, a car gets you from one point to the next. A rich man told me that once. Go from Point A to Point B with a car. That’s all. You want to go there in a Mercedes or you want to go there in a Chevy.
Interviewer: You picked the Chevy.
Katz: I’ll take the Chevy. You get the same God-damn distance. Oh, I know. I’m a character, believe me. My children think I’m a tight-wad, you know but they can’t really be as, I gave them, I gave them things, whatever, when we had extra money, Sandy and I. She never, uh, never said, ‘Don’t do that,” but sold a piece of property that we had, but it was, Sandy didn’t tell me to do these things. Sandy encouraged me in whatever business adventures, and the Spiras, I’ll mention my mom, they owned some real estate, not big, not good stuff. They weren’t in Bexley or Upper Arlington, or where you got, and where I’m living, No, it was a lot of stuff that wasn’t so wonderful, but a lot of people bought it and a lot of people, you know, ran them, yes, owned houses and rented them out and that stuff, so, Sandy and I had a company, S & A. Realty, yes, but we didn’t do that much, but we get in a, we had a place down on, in the University. We put up a, I took a course in real estate at Ohio State and I audited the course. So, the guy’s talking about how you buy a piece of property. Well, it’s a good idea. Parked the car, then go to the class, right? So, I’m parking the car. I look, you know, coming back. There’s a house burned down, up at the University, partial was burned and they were selling it, for sale, you know, all burned down. Now, it’s true, you had to tear it down. Pay for that. Then you gotta’ buy something and build that up, so, it wasn’t like, ‘Here it is, all one,’ but it was exactly what the guy was saying in the class. Then I found a builder myself, just by looking around the University. I liked the University area. I loved Ohio State because I met Sandy.
Interviewer: So, you built an apartment house on this property.
Katz: Yes. Five families.
Interviewer: Do you know where it was?
Katz: Yeah, on East Twelfth. Matter of fact, you can buy it now.
Interviewer: East Twelfth, between High Street and Summit or Indianola maybe?
Katz: Past Indianola to, it could have been, it could have been Indianola. I don’t know. I’ve forgotten now.
Interviewer: So, did students wind up living there or…
Katz: Yes, students.
Interviewer: It was for students.
Katz: It needs a lot of more active people. I found a lady that rents, that did rentals. It was Kohr and Royer. They’re wonderful people. Kohr and Royer.
Interviewer: That’s a company that manages.
Katz: Company that manages. Yes.
Interviewer: So, you were a little bit in the real estate business.
Katz: Little bit in the real estate business.
Interviewer: So, your wife Sandy, she was a teacher?
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: And did she work in the schools?
Katz: She didn’t like teaching.
Interviewer: Oh.
Katz: She really wanted to be a librarian, what’s that called, a…? There’s another field of education, teachers can do, library science, what’s it called? It’s called library science. Yes.
Interviewer: That’s the degree it is sometimes called, library science. Did she become a librarian?
Katz: Yes, well, she wanted to be but she just did the, she worked teaching for a while, and then as the store did better, or okay, then we didn’t need the income. We were okay without that, so, she sold Discovery Toys, Sandy, Discovery Toys.
Interviewer: She sold them. That’s how she made some money.
Katz: Yeah, educational toys and it was very nice. She would qualify for trips and she took me, England twice, Hawaii twice, went to Hong Kong.
Interviewer: Wow.
Katz: The company paid for her and myself and they give you a meal, a nice meal every day and you know, you had go out and buy your other meals.
Interviewer: She qualified for these because she was such a good saleswoman? She sold…
Katz: Yes, yes, and also an organizer. You had to recruit people for down [downline, down below ?]…yes it’s that way but there was nothing crooked about it. It was. She was so terrific as a salesperson. I mean, getting people to work together with her and then she got tired. She felt she could make as much money in the stock market. She started a stock club. It’s really true, Bill. She did very well. She’s very, she’s smart, Sandy, and people would call her. The stock club, whoever joined, when they formed it, could pick any, could get their friends, like I could get you, if I was a woman, you know, we could join it. It was wonderful. She did fine. She really did fine. She was just a smart girl, Sandy.
Interviewer: So, was this mostly women in this stock group?
Katz: Yes. All women.
Interviewer: All women. So, they educated themselves and they did well.
Katz: Yes. They did. Sandy would go to the library and get the, I can’t think of the book. It’s a great big book they got at the library. You look up stock companies. So, if you were interested in Proctor & Gamble, you could find Proctor & Gamble in this book. You know, it didn’t have every whatever, but…She was quite different, Sandy. She was not a spender. She was like me. If you don’t spend, you can have a buck.
Interviewer: So, she died a few years ago?
Katz: Sandy been gone two years. She died…
Interviewer: Just two years ago.
Katz: …two years ago, 2021, on Friday the 13th, Friday the 13th.
Interviewer: And were you living, both living here at, you were both living here at Creekside?
Katz: I moved to Creekside, in ’20, not ’20, in when did I come here? I’ve been here seven years.
Interviewer: Okay so she came with you came here to Creekside, yes?
Katz: Yes. Yes.
Interviewer: Okay. So, how do you, what, tell us about your life here at Creekside. Do you feel good?
Katz: I like it. She did wonderful here. I mean, Sandy, if you meet my Sandy when she was healthy, she’s just an engaging person, I mean, and she’s good looking, I mean, and nice. She was raised in a very humble manner. Her mom and dad were very humble people. I mean, he was a scien.. he was an engineer, her father and the whole family, Sandy has a younger sister alive. So, Sandy gone and her twin’s gone but her younger sister is alive. She’s, 50 years she worked teaching at Berkely in California. She marries this character from my old fraternity. We told her, “Don’t marry this guy ‘cause he’s kind of nuts,” so she spent, so, she had four years with him, four or five years maybe. Then they divorced. If there was ever a guy you wanted to throw in the toilet, that would be the guy. I’m not kidding you, but…
Interviewer: So, let me ask you this.
Katz: Go ahead. Do you have any memories here of, did you, were you, did you ever go to the Jewish Center?
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: Did you ever join a synagogue?
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: Tell us about this.
Katz: Well, my friends. I’d been a member of the Jewish Center for a number of years, and at the Jewish Center I ran into some guy. I ran into, who did I run into? I didn’t, I didn’t do that much other than going to the Center, using their exercise equipment. Oh, I did play AK baseball. AK?
Interviewer: Alta Kocher.
Katz: Alta Kocher
Interviewer: The Old Guys.
Katz: The Old guys.
Interviewer: How old were these guys when you were, how old were you?
Katz: Well, I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you who was the coach or the captain of the team I was on. It was my buddy, the bagel man, what’s his name?
Interviewer: Block?
Katz: Hal Block was in that.
Interviewer: He was the coach?
Katz: Well, he was like the head honcho,
Interviewer: Okay.
Katz: …at least the team that I was on. You know, one time they hit the ball to me. I was, I could feel I couldn’t hit, so I hardly ever got a hit. It was, like, “Go take your three swats and sit down.” That’s what they told me. “You’re going to strike out anyways.” But I fooled them. I get a hit and I got to first base. I got to first base. Okay, next guy, next batter up hits the ball and he’s running to first base, right? I have to go to second, but I was, I was traumatized, traumatized. I didn’t want to get off of first base because I knew I was going to be, be out.
Interviewer: You knew you were going to be out…
Katz: That’s right.
Interviewer: …so, you were scared to run to second?
Katz: That’s right.
Interviewer: But that’s why you were out ‘cause you didn’t run.
Katz: Well, you think I reasoned that properly? Look, I can reason when I’m talking to you but I can’t reason sometimes when it’s crisis time, so, at crisis time you lose big-time with me, for God’s sake.
Interviewer: So, when we call these guys, AK, alta kochers, how old were you?
Katz: Well, I wasn’t that old, for God’s sake.
Interviewer: What d’ya think? How old, just about?
Katz: 50s?
Interviewer: In your 50s, okay.
Katz: High 40s, maybe?
Interviewer: Oh, that’s not old at all.
Katz: No. No. I don’t, listen, there’s no explanation other than me being a coward or stupid! There was no explanation. I told ya’ I don’t know how I made it in my life, the way I have. I don’t know. I stumbled from one thing to the next, but you know what? If you keep going, Bill, Bill, yeah, you got a chance of doing alright.
Interviewer: You’ve done alright.
Katz: I’ve done alright but I didn’t give up. I just kept doing it. That’s right.
Interviewer: Now, did you join a synagogue?
Katz: Oh, yes. Temple Beth Zion. Wrong. Temple Israel, 50, I think, it’s 60 years.
Interviewer: Sixty years you’ve been members of Temple Israel. It was out on Noe Bixby,
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: …Far East…
Katz: Since, yeah…
Interviewer: …for most of that.
Katz: They just had built, the new temple. Bryden Road they called it. Remember Bryden Road? It was Temple Israel at Bryden Road but they called it Bryden Road Temple.
Interviewer: That was the inner city.
Katz: Yeah.
Interviewer: And then it moved.
Katz: Yeah.
Interviewer: Far East, Noe Bixby.
Katz: That’s right.
Interviewer: And then recently in the last few years, they moved back closer and now they’re in the Eastmoor area.
Katz: Yes. They bought the church that was very successfully occupied by two religions. The church got along wonderful. The Jewish temple, Beth Shalom, was in one part of it, right? And then…
Interviewer: The Presbyterian Church in the rest. [transcriber note: Eastminster Presbyterian Church.]
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: Got along.
Katz: Must have been there 15 years.
Interviewer: Yes.
Katz: Imagine any other Jewish group that would have done that, stayed in the church and ‘how terrible.’ ? It was fine. It was wonderful, wonderful for them.
Interviewer: A good example of Jewish–Christian cooperation.
Katz: That’s right, a good example of Jewish-Christian cooperation.
Interviewer: But now, the building has been renovated and now it’s Temple Israel.
Katz: Temple Israel. Right.
Interviewer: Have you been there?
Katz: A couple times I did. I had a nice, for Sandy’s yahrzeit, I went to Temple Israel because I was late for, we have services here , the day, there’s four o’clock services, so I had the opportunity, and a friend I’ve met, from Temple Israel, he’s not Jewish, he was, how did I meet my friend? I can’t think of his name right now, but he and I became close friends. He also ran the service for Sandy. The rabbi was busy. He has a PhD. in Jewish Studies from Capital and he taught at Capital, an awful nice man, and he goes to four o’clock services with me here when he’s available.
Interviewer: So, you did that service and then you went to Temple Israel also, for the yahrzeit for Sandy.
Katz: Yes. Yes. I was late for, for Temple Israel I did get there on time. Somebody took me. Oh, I got them to drive me from here to Temple Israel. Arriving at Temple Israel, somebody there, I asked would take me home, so, these two girls, three girls took me home. I came with no girls and I left with three. It was nice.
Interviewer: Well, we’ve been talking a long time. Let’s, we’re going to try to wrap things up but before we do, I wonder if we can end on this note. You talked about growing up in a, I think you used the word “loose,” it was loosely Jewish, not real observant…
Katz: Right.
Interviewer: …but you felt like you were Jewish and you were bar mitzvahed…
Katz: Yes
Interviewer: …and so forth.
Katz: Confirmed. I was confirmed.
Interviewer: You were confirmed also. Wow.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: So, as you look back on your life, what are your thoughts about Judaism and what role it’s played if any? What are your thoughts about your life as a Jew?
Katz: I felt what I did with my life was, that religion didn’t play a part. In my family, the ethics of my mother and father…
Interviewer: …it did play a role.
Katz: …it did play the huge role,
Interviewer: the ethics,
Katz: …ethics, doing the right thing, so I didn’t rob any banks or get, I didn’t, you know, mess round with girls, I didn’t have two or three pregnancies, but I just felt that, I didn’t feel I went after somebody as a friend because they were Jewish. I tried to judge them on themselves. If you happened to be a Buddhist, that would have been alright, too. You didn’t have to be Jewish. In retrospect, I had very little discrimination I felt, and, but I did feel I had to be better, and I felt resentful that I had this, but against other Jewish successful people, I couldn’t accept the rule, or the thing that there’s going to be people smarter than me, people dumber than me, people better looking than me, people not so good looking. That’s the world, Bill, sometimes. Sometimes, I wasn’t realistic the world as it exists, but I tried to go after the person, so I’m grateful for my family and I’m grateful for how I lived. I had a wonderful father and mother. Were they 100% happy? Not, really. Mother never thought Dad made enough money not that Dad make any money. I used to go to the office with him. We would sit and wait in between patients. You know, a patient come in 9:00 and maybe the next guy would be, you know, 11:00, 10:00, but he was happy and I remember that. He was so happy. He had a sweet smile. My dad was a sweet man.
Interviewer: And looking back on your life, you’re pretty happy about it?
Katz: I am. I’m lucky and fortunate. Look where I live, Bill. It’s a nice place. Look around a lot in this place. It’s pretty. The room is even nice, you know? You can ask my cat now about the rooms. He gets locked indoors. He’ll follow you quick but he’s, he only went out the door once and I had to try and get him back in but now I don’t walk so good, you know. I gotta’ use this walker or else I may fall. I’ve fallen quite a few times. So, 80, what am I now? 88.
Interviewer: You’re 88 right now?
Katz: That ain’t bad.
Interviewer: Do you have, are you pretty much optimistic or pessimistic about the world and about Jews?
Katz: Fearful about Jews…
Interviewer: Fearful.
Katz: …that don’t live in America. I feel, I feel that there’s so much anti-Semitism, only because, I guess, now I affiliate more with Jewish things. I mean, I hear more because I’m in a Jewish place. I was never around this many Jews in my life. It’s like, I really didn’t select this place to live because it was Jewish. I selected it because Sandy was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s 2012, so, moved in here 2016. I could see the progression was going that direction, figuring we might as well be in a place and I could afford the tuition, you know. It’s expensive to live at Creekside. It’s expensive at all these nursing homes. It’s a very expensive situation. Sandy insisted on certain type insurance, insisted. I didn’t want to buy it. No, it’s too expensive, too expensive, but Sandy insisted. We bought General Electric Insurance, which later rolled, health insurance, later rolled into Genworth. I’m grateful. They were so generous because we had that policy with them.
Interviewer: And that’s helped you afford to be able to live…
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: …here at Creekside.
Katz: Yes.
Interviewer: And it was good for Sandy?
Katz: Yes. Oh, she was very popular, Sandy. We weren’t, and then I got appointed some things here by just hanging around [Arasky?] and I liked it. I felt like a big putz, you know? You know, I was really, ‘Look at me,’ you know? ‘I’m Mr. So-and-So.’ I liked that. I guess I liked recognition and I liked feeling that I was okay. I was okay.
Interviewer: Well, with those words, we’ll end out interview with Alan Katz here at Creekside and I’m Bill Cohen for the Columbus Jewish Historical Society.
Transcribed by Linda Kalette Schottenstein December 3, 2023